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Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

reuters.com

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Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#61

Post by bamboozled »

foepys wrote: post #55
guidovranken wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fine with that if it happens in a free market under informed consent and for curing real diseases. But big pharma, big media, big tech, government and law enforcement acting in complete lockstep to forcibly inject experimental vaccines into your veins for something that amounts to a bad variant of the flu is something else entirely.

Did you ever have the flu? I bet you didn't and if you think you did, you probably had a cold instead. A runny nose, headaches, and a sore throat doesn't mean you got the flu. The flu will bind you to your bed for at least a week and you will need 3-6 weeks to recover. You will feel like somebody ran you over with a truck. It's not fun, it's highly dangerous.

Why do people always says this?

I've had the flu, I'm sure nearly everyone has had it once. It's not really incredibly uncommon.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#62

Post by trhway »

seoaeu wrote: post #41
mdbug wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The costs of the pandemic are one side. The other is the cost of developing and producing the vaccines. In a normal market situation, prices are determined by supply and demand. But that's really not such a situation here. The question from the government's point of view has to be whether you could have had the vaccine cheaper. After all, large sums of money have already been invested by the states for research and d…

> The question from the government's point of view has to be whether you could have had the vaccine cheaper. The answer to this is emphatically no. Countries that paid more per-dose got vaccines earlier. Manufactures are producing vaccines as fast as they can, but there's still unfilled demand for over 5 billion more doses. And in low-income countries which can't afford to pay as much, even today only 1.1% of the pop…

> there's still unfilled demand for over 5 billion more doses.

Because US and Europe can pay that much more the Big Pharma is going to make the 3rd, 4th,... booster shots instead of trying to satisfy that low-income countries demand. And making new vaccine against delta seems also less profitable than just pushing the booster shots. Immunity falling in 6 months - sounds like a situation somewhat between subscription model and 12 hours Vicodin, you can be sure that the MBAs know how to exploit it.

What happens around covid is well outside just the supposed medical issue of pandemic fighting. If anything it is seems to be primarily about business and politics. For example US officially pressured Brazil to not take Russian vaccine https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/03/16/hhs-brazil-s... .

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#63

Post by nitwit005 »

guidovranken wrote: post #52
rank0 wrote: post #22

I actually have no problem with pharma companies seeing huge profits from the covid vaccines. Should they not be compensated for their extremely difficult/impactful work? Why won’t someone else do it for cheaper?

I'm fine with that if it happens in a free market under informed consent and for curing real diseases. But big pharma, big media, big tech, government and law enforcement acting in complete lockstep to forcibly inject experimental vaccines into your veins for something that amounts to a bad variant of the flu is something else entirely.

I wish the government worked so well, and could carry out a plan with such a diverse group of corporations without discord. Sadly a fantasy.

I'd want to move to that world, even if the government was nefarious. At least they're super competent.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#64

Post by oceanplexian »

guidovranken wrote: post #52
rank0 wrote: post #22

I actually have no problem with pharma companies seeing huge profits from the covid vaccines. Should they not be compensated for their extremely difficult/impactful work? Why won’t someone else do it for cheaper?

I'm fine with that if it happens in a free market under informed consent and for curing real diseases. But big pharma, big media, big tech, government and law enforcement acting in complete lockstep to forcibly inject experimental vaccines into your veins for something that amounts to a bad variant of the flu is something else entirely.

I don’t think government, tech, and law enforcement are acting in complete lockstep. But I can believe they are acting out of fear, and fueled by social media and technology.

This worries me even more than a conspiracy, because people who are acting out of fear cannot consistently do good science or make rational decisions. When every government official, media outlet, and society at large is depending on scientists, doctors, and businesses to “fix” the pandemic so we can get back to business as usual, how strong are the incentive to cut corners or fudge some numbers if the ends justify the means? IMHO we are building lots of terrible incentive structures that are bound to blow up in our face.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#65

Post by refurb »

hattmall wrote: post #31
BurningFrog wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing vaccine manufacturers to give away their vaccine creates strong incentives against inventing vaccines. It works once, but the next pandemic may happen without any vaccines. The consensual, win-win way is to buy vaccines from the manufacturers, at high prices. This makes manufacturers wealthy by making people healthy and aligns incentives for the common good.

Or just have government funded researchers that are well compensated, it's not the actual scientist that developed the drugs getting rich.

Huh? The Moderna employees have made out very well based on equity appreciation. And Pfizer scientists are well compensated including stock.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#66

Post by refurb »

ipspam wrote: post #3

$60 billion for two years worth of shots? Sounds like a steal. Covid has cost the global economy Trillions and Trillions of dollars already, and all the downstream costs will probably add up to $100 trillion real dollars when factoring in inflation, money printing, national debt, state/provincial debts/local debts/consumer debt increases.

A good example is Singapore. Total direct costs of support for business and individuals? $60B from what I’ve seen. And that does not include the economic costs of shutting down the economy.

Cost to vaccinate everyone in the country? ~$250-500M for the vaccines alone.

The vaccines are an absolute steal at their current price..

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#67

Post by sureglymop »

guidovranken wrote: post #52
rank0 wrote: post #22

I actually have no problem with pharma companies seeing huge profits from the covid vaccines. Should they not be compensated for their extremely difficult/impactful work? Why won’t someone else do it for cheaper?

I'm fine with that if it happens in a free market under informed consent and for curing real diseases. But big pharma, big media, big tech, government and law enforcement acting in complete lockstep to forcibly inject experimental vaccines into your veins for something that amounts to a bad variant of the flu is something else entirely.

Okay.. experimental vaccines?

There are about 30 different COVID-19 vaccines around the world, with all kinds of different technology. There are inactivated vaccines, live-attenuated vaccines, viral vector vaccines, you name it. And then there are also nucleic acid vaccines, which deliver instructions to our cells, either as DNA or as mRNA. These aren't new, and they have been researched way before COVID-19. It's just that these vaccines save costs and time, which makes them good option for this pandemic. Do note that in less rich and developed countries, more of the other types of vaccines are being used. It's actually a luxury that we can have this type of vaccine and personally I am quite sure that this is the future of most vaccines anyway.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#68

Post by bawolff »

poof131 wrote: post #53
BurningFrog wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing vaccine manufacturers to give away their vaccine creates strong incentives against inventing vaccines. It works once, but the next pandemic may happen without any vaccines. The consensual, win-win way is to buy vaccines from the manufacturers, at high prices. This makes manufacturers wealthy by making people healthy and aligns incentives for the common good.

That’s a straw man argument. They’ve made billions and will make billions more. Nothing is being given away for free. But currently, it is in their financial interests for this pandemic to go on indefinitely with continued mutations and a never-ending need for boosters. And our free market always seems to tilt in favor of monopolies. Shut down small businesses but don’t put any pressure on big pharma. Similar to 2008…

Please forgive my personal pet peeve, but nothing BurningFrog said was a straw man as far as i can tell. I don't see any way they misrepresented your argument.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#69

Post by sureglymop »

curation wrote: post #57
guidovranken wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fine with that if it happens in a free market under informed consent and for curing real diseases. But big pharma, big media, big tech, government and law enforcement acting in complete lockstep to forcibly inject experimental vaccines into your veins for something that amounts to a bad variant of the flu is something else entirely.

Yes. For one example Finland has a nasal inhalation vaccine and cannot get funding to go ahead with it. (my partner is Finnish).

There are about 30 different vaccines for COVID-19 around the world. Only the most "luxurious ones" such as Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna and AstraZeneca are nucleic acid vaccines which use mRNA or DNA. It's a "superior" technology because it costs less and our own bodies do the work so to speak. Viruses or subunits of viruses don't have to be synthesized in a lab, so the challenges which come with that don't have to be dealt with.

I'm pretty sure that this is the future of vaccines anyway.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#70

Post by bawolff »

proc0 wrote: post #59
rank0 wrote: post #22

I actually have no problem with pharma companies seeing huge profits from the covid vaccines. Should they not be compensated for their extremely difficult/impactful work? Why won’t someone else do it for cheaper?

> I actually have no problem with pharma companies seeing huge profits from the covid vaccines. Not that long ago people were talking about how the for-profit medical industry didn't have the best interest of the people in mind because their priority was to make money, to the detriment of people who can't afford healthcare. Now that seems to have vanished and all of a sudden they are able to still make profit while a…

Sure, that criticism might apply generally and previously - but i don't think its applying all that much to covid vaccines.
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