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Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

reuters.com

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Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#41
post #6
post #3

$60 billion for two years worth of shots? Sounds like a steal. Covid has cost the global economy Trillions and Trillions of dollars already, and all the downstream costs will probably add up to $100 trillion real dollars when factoring in inflation, money printing, national debt, state/provincial debts/local debts/consumer debt increases.

The costs of the pandemic are one side. The other is the cost of developing and producing the vaccines. In a normal market situation, prices are determined by supply and demand. But that's really not such a situation here. The question from the government's point of view has to be whether you could have had the vaccine cheaper. After all, large sums of money have already been invested by the states for research and d…

> The question from the government's point of view has to be whether you could have had the vaccine cheaper.

The answer to this is emphatically no.

Countries that paid more per-dose got vaccines earlier. Manufactures are producing vaccines as fast as they can, but there's still unfilled demand for over 5 billion more doses. And in low-income countries which can't afford to pay as much, even today only 1.1% of the population has been vaccinated so far...

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#42
post #30
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Medicine is the only industry that can sell flawed products, offer no guarantees, and charge arbitrary prices for services without any consequence. Where do you frame mandatory requirements for clinical trials along with your personal assertion regarding "flawed products with no guarantees" ?

Did a doctor ever give you a guarantee that their treatment would heal you? Contrast with almost any other industry... the baker telling you "this piece of bread might cure your hunger, but there is a 10% risk that it will kill you instead". Clinical trials are in many cases smoke and mirrors - very elaborate and inscrutable, but provide no guarantees in the end. When it comes down to results of medical treatments, y…

The baker cannot guarantee I won't discover a gluten sensitivity, or choke on the bread, or any number of other things.

Very little in life is guaranteed. Vaccine efficacy fitting this rule shouldn't be surprising.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing vaccine manufacturers to give away their vaccine creates strong incentives against inventing vaccines. It works once, but the next pandemic may happen without any vaccines. The consensual, win-win way is to buy vaccines from the manufacturers, at high prices. This makes manufacturers wealthy by making people healthy and aligns incentives for the common good.

Or just have government funded researchers that are well compensated, it's not the actual scientist that developed the drugs getting rich.

First, the science in developing a vaccine is not the only work involved. Clinical trials and scaling up manufacturing to name a few.

Second, it actually is the scientists getting rich at least in some cases: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/business/biontech-covid-v...

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#44
post #22

I actually have no problem with pharma companies seeing huge profits from the covid vaccines. Should they not be compensated for their extremely difficult/impactful work? Why won’t someone else do it for cheaper?

Big phrama and their lobbyists will have more money now to influence policy.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#45
post #34
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did a doctor ever give you a guarantee that their treatment would heal you? Contrast with almost any other industry... the baker telling you "this piece of bread might cure your hunger, but there is a 10% risk that it will kill you instead". Clinical trials are in many cases smoke and mirrors - very elaborate and inscrutable, but provide no guarantees in the end. When it comes down to results of medical treatments, y…

> Did a doctor ever give you a guarantee that their treatment would heal you? You don't get a guarantee that a brand of paint will work with your walls, but that does not mean paint doesn't work. Meanwhile, personally I've enjoyed a 100% success rate in all medical treatments I was subjected to. I might be lucky, but I'm under the impression that everyone around me has been fantastically lucky as well. Does this mean…

There are certainly some treatments that work - setting a broken bone for example - but there are many that don't work. The problem is that the truths are mixed with the untruths, and unfortunately the treatments that don't work tend to be the expensive and, by definition, the risky ones.

It comes down to overreach by the "experts". This is also not a novel concept - Socrates' famous saying "I know that I know nothing" actually refers to how most "experts" DON'T know what they don't know, and thus overreach their authority. By recognizing what he doesn't know, Socrates thus establishes his intellectual superiority. Interesting story that I don't feel like writing out in full right now, but highly relevant.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#46
post #13

What I don’t understand is how we can shut down the economy with a huge impact on small businesses, but not force the drug manufactures to share the capability with the rest of the world. We complain about the unvaccinated in the US and the possibility of mutations, but then don’t do everything we can to help vaccinate the world and prevent mutations. And Russia and China are sharing the less effective vaccines they…

There is some movement in this area. While this is not absolute it at lease a reversal on the US's previous stance of protecting patents on the vaccine.

> Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine patents to boost supply - 06 May 2021

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57004302

As I recall, this move needs further agreement between the US and its allies.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing vaccine manufacturers to give away their vaccine creates strong incentives against inventing vaccines. It works once, but the next pandemic may happen without any vaccines. The consensual, win-win way is to buy vaccines from the manufacturers, at high prices. This makes manufacturers wealthy by making people healthy and aligns incentives for the common good.

Or just have government funded researchers that are well compensated, it's not the actual scientist that developed the drugs getting rich.

Here is a profile of the billionaire inventors of the Pfizer vaccine as a counterexample:

https://www.businessinsider.com/a-billionaire-couple-is-behi...

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world massively over reacted to covid a disease that mainly affects the old and infirm. $60,000,000,000 / 10,000 saved works out to $6,000,000 per life saved. If the median age of death of a covid victim is 80 then this expenditure amounts to a massive misallocation of resources just on the vaccine alone never mind the hundreds of billions (actually trillions, as you say!) more spent on economically disruptive an…

Death isn't the only thing that comes from the virus. You're also ignoring all of the younger people who are immunocompromised or otherwise susceptible to the effects of the disease. Alternative suggestion: everyone just get their shots just like they do their flu shot and we can all move forward with our lives.

You can take all the shots you want but you'll never be able to move forward with your life.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#49

I'm sure there's no malignment of interests between these corps & taxpayers.. /s

Taxpayers want to avoid dying and these corporations want to sell them a vaccine to achieve that. Seems like a nearly perfect alignment of interests to me

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#50
post #49

I'm sure there's no malignment of interests between these corps & taxpayers.. /s

Taxpayers want to avoid dying and these corporations want to sell them a vaccine to achieve that. Seems like a nearly perfect alignment of interests to me

That is by no means a fair exchange. You'll do anything to save your life.
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