Java 7 is now available • Hacker News Board

Re: Java 7 is now available

#41

Post by smackfu » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 4:40 PM UTC

X-Istence wrote: post #28

jcromartie wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple maintain their own release of the JVM for OS X.

No, this has changed. With the start of Lion Apple is no longer the gatekeeper and as was previously reported they are working with Oracle to create new releases of OpenJDK which is why people like myself are wondering where the release is since Apple was stepping away from being the gatekeeper.

Apple is still the gatekeeper in Lion: there are a ton of hooks that auto-install Apple Java via Software Update when it feels you need Java, like running into an applet or invoking the java command line binary.

In the future, they plan on placing Oracle in that role, I guess, but it hasn't happened yet. All Lion does is change it from shipped with the OS to not.

Re: Java 7 is now available

#42

Post by speckledjim » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 4:41 PM UTC

famousactress wrote: post #21

Meh. The world turns. I spent a decade developing primarily in Java, and the last few years were really disappointing. The community splintered, the language and platform really lost any ability to maintain momentum. I might have been stoked about Java 7 three years ago (when it should have come out).

> The community splintered, the language and platform really lost any ability to maintain momentum.

This is the mindset I've never understood.

Do you stop using a hammer to bang in nails because the hammer "community" has splintered, or the development of hammers has stagnated? No, you still use it to fulfill a job it solves.

Re: Java 7 is now available

#43

Post by gvkv » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 4:41 PM UTC

ghotli wrote: post #32

nkassis wrote: post #27

So for languages like Clojure,Scala does this offer any new feature for them?

Yes [1]. Invokedynamic (JSR-262). Quote from an older article [2]: "... enable[s] implementers of compilers for dynamically typed languages, that is, the people who develop compilers for languages such as JRuby and Jython, to generate bytecode that runs extremely fast in the JVM." [1] http://blogs.oracle.com/jrose/entry/jsr_292_launched_in_java [2] http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/DynTypeLang/...

Whoo-hoo! Time for the Perl port.

Re: Java 7 is now available

#44

Post by puredanger » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 4:46 PM UTC

speckledjim wrote: post #42

famousactress wrote: post #21

Meh. The world turns. I spent a decade developing primarily in Java, and the last few years were really disappointing. The community splintered, the language and platform really lost any ability to maintain momentum. I might have been stoked about Java 7 three years ago (when it should have come out).

> The community splintered, the language and platform really lost any ability to maintain momentum. This is the mindset I've never understood. Do you stop using a hammer to bang in nails because the hammer "community" has splintered, or the development of hammers has stagnated? No, you still use it to fulfill a job it solves.

That's true. Unless someone builds a lighter, more accurate hammer in the meantime.

Re: Java 7 is now available

#45

Post by PyErr_SetString » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 4:48 PM UTC

runevault wrote: post #38

Mitt wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not. See what Rich Hickey said about this: http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2008-09-03.html#09:13a

For clojure no, but jRuby and several similar languages are getting a huge boost.

Have you seen any actual numbers on this? I've googled around a bit and can't seem to find any.

Re: Java 7 is now available

#46

Post by cfontes » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 4:49 PM UTC

rubyorchard wrote: post #26

Too little to show for 5 years.

yeah but Sun was sold, and other stuff happened. I think it's already great that there is a release with some syntax features that are useful and other nice to have things too. I think Java 8 will come fast there are plenty of new langs now they can't miss the point otherwise companies will continue to migrate to faster evolving languages with faster developing times.

Re: Java 7 is now available

#47

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 4:49 PM UTC

ghotli wrote: post #32

nkassis wrote: post #27

So for languages like Clojure,Scala does this offer any new feature for them?

Yes [1]. Invokedynamic (JSR-262). Quote from an older article [2]: "... enable[s] implementers of compilers for dynamically typed languages, that is, the people who develop compilers for languages such as JRuby and Jython, to generate bytecode that runs extremely fast in the JVM." [1] http://blogs.oracle.com/jrose/entry/jsr_292_launched_in_java [2] http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/DynTypeLang/...

[deleted]

Re: Java 7 is now available

#48

Post by pmr_ » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 4:55 PM UTC

speckledjim wrote: post #42

famousactress wrote: post #21

Meh. The world turns. I spent a decade developing primarily in Java, and the last few years were really disappointing. The community splintered, the language and platform really lost any ability to maintain momentum. I might have been stoked about Java 7 three years ago (when it should have come out).

> The community splintered, the language and platform really lost any ability to maintain momentum. This is the mindset I've never understood. Do you stop using a hammer to bang in nails because the hammer "community" has splintered, or the development of hammers has stagnated? No, you still use it to fulfill a job it solves.

And all just because the metaphor lacks (here more than elsewhere). Using a tool also means becoming more proficient in it and this is similar to an investment. If you don't expect anything of significance to come out of the movement associated with your language it is hard for the working programmer to enjoy developing in it any more. Here the fundamental difference to hammers becomes clear: Hammers don't evolve and have no complex ecosystem associated while programming languages do.

Re: Java 7 is now available

#49

Post by runevault » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 4:55 PM UTC

PyErr_SetString wrote: post #45

runevault wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For clojure no, but jRuby and several similar languages are getting a huge boost.

Have you seen any actual numbers on this? I've googled around a bit and can't seem to find any.

JRuby developer Charles Nutter claims that Java JDK7 gives a performance boost to JRuby, saying "On bench_threaded_reverse, Java 7 is 20% faster than Java 6, and JRuby plus invokedynamic is 20% faster than that".[1]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JRuby with the [1] being

https://twitter.com/#!/headius/status/78282122997149696

Re: Java 7 is now available

#50

Post by famousactress » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 4:55 PM UTC

speckledjim wrote: post #42

famousactress wrote: post #21

Meh. The world turns. I spent a decade developing primarily in Java, and the last few years were really disappointing. The community splintered, the language and platform really lost any ability to maintain momentum. I might have been stoked about Java 7 three years ago (when it should have come out).

> The community splintered, the language and platform really lost any ability to maintain momentum. This is the mindset I've never understood. Do you stop using a hammer to bang in nails because the hammer "community" has splintered, or the development of hammers has stagnated? No, you still use it to fulfill a job it solves.

I don't think this is a valid analogy. The language/tools/support/ability-to-hire-developers are all a fluid ever-changing thing. Hammers aren't. Take this post.. people are excited about updates. I'm just saying the updates are kind of too little too late for me.