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WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

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Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#151

Post by nosianu »

stvswn wrote: post #110
tootie wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best writeup I've seen is actually this twitter thread from the WNYC science reporter, Nsikan Akpan (himself a phd in biology). The gist being that while lab leak is still possible, it's very unlikely and it's also likely we'll never find a smoking gun for any hypothesis. https://twitter.com/MoNscience/status/1396240581651742724

The thread's entire premise is that lab leakers are only speculating while there is in fact direct evidence of natural origins. What direct evidence of natural origins is he referring to? Kristian Andersen's argument in his oft-cited paper seems to be that the spike proteins are effective at infecting humans in a novel way, and that if he were engineering an infections coronavirus he would have designed it differentl…

> The thread's entire premise is that lab leakers are only speculating while there is in fact direct evidence of natural origins.

This is not either/or at all!

It can be both completely natural AND also have escaped from a lab. Pretending that lab == bio-engineered is a disingenuous distraction. For the given purpose of that lab them having a lot of naturally occurring viruses is to be expected, since that is the basis of what they are supposed to research.

A lot of people have pointed that out, why do you keep touting that distraction that paints anyone serious about the lab leak question as a conspiracy nut unwilling to look at the evidence? Natural origin is accepted and does not contradict the lab escape hypothesis at all.

Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#152

Post by trasz »

iammisc wrote: post #142
trasz wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US did this many times. The investigations ended up like they usually do in US, starting from My Lai - in the best case they’ll find a single scapegoat and that’s it.

I'm not claiming the us didnt do this. I'm disputing that people would stay silent when the us does this. The us does do this and has large and growing domestic opposition movements.

People don’t stay silent, but the way the US works, it simply doesn’t matter.

Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#153

Post by s5300 »

timbo1642 wrote: post #140
cm2187 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest the only way we will ever know is if the chinese would share the genomes of the viruses they stored in their lab, but who would trust them to do that? The express drive-by the WHO did in china served absolutely no purpose. I am ready to bet that all samples have been destroyed and the staff briefed (warned). I would even suspect the samples have not even been analysed by the Chinese themselves as it is b…

We dont need to compare anything. We already know. Even the Biden administration who kisses China's ass agrees. Its well known and all the virus experts that aren't brainwashed leftists agree. Many of them did from day 1. They had other leaks and there are news articles about it with the original SARS. Stop trying to play pretend and believe the truth.

>that aren't brainwashed leftists agree.

>Stop trying to play pretend and believe the truth.

Just like Bush and his Dubya Em Deez, right? The other side is always brainwashed, and your side always "knows the truth"

Why don't you go use that power of yours to go do something helpful?

Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#154

Post by iammisc »

trasz wrote: post #152
iammisc wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not claiming the us didnt do this. I'm disputing that people would stay silent when the us does this. The us does do this and has large and growing domestic opposition movements.

People don’t stay silent, but the way the US works, it simply doesn’t matter.

If we had 100% incontrivertible evidence COVID came from a CHinese lab, I can 100% guarantee you nothing would happen to china.

Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#155

Post by peter422 »

JPKab wrote: post #88
cm2187 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest the only way we will ever know is if the chinese would share the genomes of the viruses they stored in their lab, but who would trust them to do that? The express drive-by the WHO did in china served absolutely no purpose. I am ready to bet that all samples have been destroyed and the staff briefed (warned). I would even suspect the samples have not even been analysed by the Chinese themselves as it is b…

To add to your point, it was a chain of improbable coincidences: Pandemic starting at the doorstep of a lab (that is not located in remotely close proximity to the Yunnan caves where the previous SARS viruses were originating from) Previous SARS virus outbreaks (SARS1 and MERS) had zoonotic reservoirs identified in months with dramatically fewer resources, but coincidentally, with vast resources and global efforts, n…

> Previous SARS virus outbreaks showed a gradual evolution of a virus to progressively becoming more infectious to humans, and equivalent genetic changes in the virus that can be traced. This one started out as highly infectious, and until several months in, mutations weren't very significant.

Both of these statements are so inaccurate. It took many years before scientists were certain what the reservoir was for SARS, and there were already different lineages of the virus at the Wuhan market!

You are mad at the CCP for putting out misleading information. You are guilty of the same thing!

Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#156

Post by kristjansson »

One gets the sense that the ... intense ... interest in the origin of this virus, and whether it has any association this lab is not really driven by overwhelming scientific curiosity.

Is it worth knowing? Sure. Would a convincing answer to the question at any point between March 2020 and now changed the course of the pandemic in any way? No.

Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#157

Post by outworlder »

timbo1642 wrote: post #140
cm2187 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest the only way we will ever know is if the chinese would share the genomes of the viruses they stored in their lab, but who would trust them to do that? The express drive-by the WHO did in china served absolutely no purpose. I am ready to bet that all samples have been destroyed and the staff briefed (warned). I would even suspect the samples have not even been analysed by the Chinese themselves as it is b…

We dont need to compare anything. We already know. Even the Biden administration who kisses China's ass agrees. Its well known and all the virus experts that aren't brainwashed leftists agree. Many of them did from day 1. They had other leaks and there are news articles about it with the original SARS. Stop trying to play pretend and believe the truth.

> brainwashed leftists

My heuristic is, whenever I encounter these labels, it's the moment I stop reading. They signal the end of productive conversation, anything surrounding them can be ignored.

Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#158

Post by s5300 »

iammisc wrote: post #103
8note wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It got tied to another theory, that the virus was engineered.

Who claimed that? Even the most prominent proponent of the lab leak theory, Donald Trump, said several times early on that he wasn't sure if it was intentional or an accident. In fact, he was pretty clear he thought it was accidental, and only mentioned it being intentional as a possibility, but that was an afterthought. Source, since everyone likes to put words in his mouth: https://apnews.com/article/understanding-…

> In fact, he was pretty clear he thought

I suspect you're being downvoted because of your insistence on Donald Trump being "pretty clear", among other things, when Donald Trump has a decades long history of being anything but "very clear"

While this is after when your comment refers to, here is an example.

> "And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?

"So it'd be interesting to check that."

Pointing to his head, Mr Trump went on: "I'm not a doctor. But I'm, like, a person that has a good you-know-what."

This was stated by a US President to the general public of his nation, and the world at large.

The next day, about this quote - he simpled stated that he was "being sarcastic"

If you have some notion on how this method of communication and reason equates with being "pretty clear", please do tell.

However, this reply of yours

>the downvotes indicate

Would seem to "indicate" that you're not exactly the most reasonable person to have any discussion in good faith to begin with.

Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#159

Post by danenania »

scheme271 wrote: post #146
JPKab wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is currently zero evidence to support a zoonotic origin. It took 9 months to find the source of MERS (camels). It took 14 months to find the origin of SARS1 (bats). What evidence do you have that this was transmitted from an animal carrier? What mammal in China (it's not like there are that many mammal species living in the Wuhan metropolitan area) has been identified that easily catches COVID? The answer is ze…

OTOH, no one has found the zoonotic origin for ebola people looking for literally decades. That's also the case for a few other diseases as well. Just because the origin for MERS and SARS was found quickly, it doesn't follow that covid investigations will be as quick

If ebola had emerged right next to a lab doing high-risk research on ebola-like viruses, people would have (justifiably) been highly suspicious.

Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#160

Post by aesh2Xa1 »

rcurry wrote: post #144
cm2187 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to think we don't put doctors in jail when they raise the alarm on a new virus.

Well, we do block them on Facebook and Twitter.

What are you talking about (serious)? Dissent is legal and will not result in imprisonment in the US.

I don't even subscribe to Facebook or Twitter by choice. I definitely wouldn't subscribe to imprisonment by choice, haha. If you're concerned about these platforms controlling their content privately, don't use them.

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