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FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

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Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#151

Post by m4rtink »

eugeniub wrote: post #134
m4rtink wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The possibility of OS vendors forcing users to only install software from their walled gardens is the reason Valve started to support Linux, created their own Linux distro (Steam OS, now based on Arch Linux) and ultimately why Steam Deck was built. IIRC the main trigger was Windows 8 that back then had a strong push to only use Windows Store to install software. Valve could not conceivably continue doing business if…

I'm happy with what Valve is doing now, but as a whole, the fact that Steam OS is a Linux distro doesn't necessarily mean that Steam OS / Steam Deck won't become locked down in the same manner in the future. Android itself is open source and Linux-based.

One overlooked aspect of why Steam Desk is quite a game changer is the fat that it's the first actually open handheld gaming platforms.

All the predecessors (Nintendo DS, Playstation Vita, Nintendo Switch, etc.) have been regular consoles with heavy weight locked down walled garden, where all content had to pass a lot of byzantine review and respect least common denominator content rules and censorship.

With Steam deck there is finally a handheld platform where a much wider selection of games can be installed from itself that has much less insane content rules or totally separately directly from developers to users. Another community that has been mostly banned from consoles is moders - there are basically no games that support modding on consoles, yet its very popular in many games on PC. And finally, we have a handheld that can run games with mods!

So I would hope that this will turn out to be a big selling point of Steam Deck & that affected communities (independent content creators & modding community) would make sure they are not cut off again like they were on consoles.

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#152

Post by tyingq »

"That's right; someone at Google reviewed this app, visited the LT website, scrolled to the very bottom of the page, and clicked through twice to find a way to contribute funds to the project."

Oof. So the app didn't link to the donate page, and it was at least 1 click away (maybe 2) from the page it did link to.

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#153

Post by marcus_holmes »

sgtfrankieboy wrote: post #58
young_unixer wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can also see how legislation would worsen the situation by eliminating incentives for people to use alternative mobile stores and operating systems. "Why use another store, when Google and Apple are required by law to have all apps?"

The laws are about being able to provide alternative payment methods and stores. They aren't going to force Google and Apple to have all apps?

Forcing the stores to have all the apps would be bad - swamped in shitty malware.

Stopping the stores from demanding that all apps have no method of payment except via their payment services (and its 30% cut) would be good. It would solve the situation in TFA at least.

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#154

Post by heavyset_go »

Google is cracking down on their Play Store and enforcing similar rules to the ones Apple enforces on their App Store.

As of September 2021, all apps distributed on the Play Store must use Google's billing method[1]. Apps listed on the Play Store cannot link to alternative payment or donation methods in the listing's description or in the app itself[1]. Google will take a 15% to 30% cut off all sales. These rules are similar to the rules on the App Store.

Google and Apple hold a duopoly in the mobile operating systems market and the mobile app distribution market. The move to enforce the adoption of Google's billing system seems like the mobile app distribution cartel is engaging in price fixing[2].

It also seems like Google and Apple have leveraged their duopolies in the mobile OS and app distribution markets to dominate the mobile app payments market, now, too.

[1] https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#155

Post by mdp2021 »

whocares2345 wrote: post #25

Is there any particular reason the author paying rent via donations is different from any of us paying rent from our work? You decided to use Googles distribution platform and infrastructure while not sharing the revenue - fully knowing it is illegal in the Play Store to accept payments outside of the platform. Basically you attempted to steal the efforts Google invested in creating and promoting Android, it’s develo…

> Is there any particular reason the author paying rent via donations is different from any of us paying rent from our work

Patently, yes:

-- "donation" means one can get the product independently of any money transfer;

-- «paying from work», «charging for apps», «require or accept payment for access to features or services», means that getting the product is conditional to money transfer.

"Donation" is not "payment".

In fact, I do not quite understand on which contractual reason the ban happened.

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#156

Post by tyingq »

pengaru wrote: post #19
maxwell wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was glad they walked back on Dragonfly and (effectively) killed AMP. In the process they did lose me as a user of their free products though. And they lost me as a developer, I no longer opt for building with their tools, including Chrome, Android, Angular, GCloud, etc.

> and (effectively) killed AMP err, what? I still regularly get AMP links from news.google.com

The incentive to move to AMP is gone, since it's no longer needed to land in the carousel, but moving off of it is still a project/effort.

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#157

Post by bjarneh »

SquareWheel wrote: post #96
bjarneh wrote: post #75

When a company has to remove the motto "Don't be evil" You know something is not well

Please be mindful not to spread misinformation. The motto is still featured in their code of conduct as it always was. https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct/

> "Don't be evil" is a phrase used in Google's corporate code of conduct, which it also formerly preceded as a motto.

What misinformation?

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#158

Post by tinus_hn »

ineedasername wrote: post #131
ThePhysicist wrote: post #113

Just wait 5-10 years and it will probably be the same way on Windows and MacOS. They will argue that installing arbitrary, unvetted software through the web is dangerous, so it's only reasonable for Microsoft and Apple to make this very difficult and instead promote installing all software through their app stores (which they already start doing). Once software is primarily distributed via these stores they will also…

I could see that on Windows Home Edition, but I don't know how they would make that work for Enterprise Edition. I don't see companies like SAS or Oracle and many others being willing to pay a Microsoft tax to distribute client software or desktop apps for their products. Or IBM for applications like SPSS. SaaS may end up eating a lot of that sort of thing, and web clients would help mitigate the requirements, but I…

If you had any idea of the amount of money companies are already spending on Microsoft licenses.. the cost of a signing certificate really is just a drop in the bucket.

The only issue companies have with getting their apps signed is managing the certificates.

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#159

Post by mdp2021 »

heavyset_go wrote: post #154

Google is cracking down on their Play Store and enforcing similar rules to the ones Apple enforces on their App Store. As of September 2021, all apps distributed on the Play Store must use Google's billing method[1]. Apps listed on the Play Store cannot link to alternative payment or donation methods in the listing's description or in the app itself[1]. Google will take a 15% to 30% cut off all sales. These rules are…

A rule like «cannot link to [...] donation methods» - surely arbitrary and unfair to some judgements - should move away developers.

Also the way of OruxMaps is possible: one version published in the store and another published elsewhere:

«only donate version available in google play, because the free version "has been removed because it violates the payments policy"»

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#160

Post by heavyset_go »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #113

Just wait 5-10 years and it will probably be the same way on Windows and MacOS. They will argue that installing arbitrary, unvetted software through the web is dangerous, so it's only reasonable for Microsoft and Apple to make this very difficult and instead promote installing all software through their app stores (which they already start doing). Once software is primarily distributed via these stores they will also…

> Just wait 5-10 years and it will probably be the same way on Windows and MacOS. They will argue that installing arbitrary, unvetted software through the web is dangerous, so it's only reasonable for Microsoft and Apple to make this very difficult and instead promote installing all software through their app stores

Apple already does this on macOS. macOS treats all un-Notarized apps as if they're radioactive, and leads users to believe the un-Notarized apps they choose to run are either broken or malicious. If you want to run them, you need to know how to perform a magic ritual with the UI and adjust arcane settings. Every Mac based on the M1 chipset and above will not run unsigned binaries, either.

With both Apple's Gatekeeper and Microsoft's Defender, developers must regularly buy certificates to sign their apps, and they must remain in good standing with each company if they want their apps to run without problems on macOS or Windows. Apple and Microsoft can revoke certificates whenever they want, for any reason they want, and macOS and Windows won't allow apps signed with the revoked certificates to run. Apple goes one step further and forces app developers to Notarize their apps, which involves uploading the app to Apple's servers so they can scan and approve of it. Un-Notarized apps are, again, treated as if they're radioactive.

If you use the Mac App Store or the Microsoft Store, your operating system won't trick you into believing that the apps you downloaded with them are malicious or broken. It's no coincidence that the happy path for app distribution on either system is the same one that generates the most revenue for either company and hands them the most control.

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