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The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

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Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#401

Post by giantg2 »

exo-pla-net wrote: post #393
giantg2 wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol it is not the equivalent of 70C. Please see the other resources people have posted here about understanding wet bulb temperatures. Even a wet bulb of 35C can be tolerated by most for hours - 70C could not. I would not leave my house. My house has insulation and thermal mass, which would delay the tempature from reaching that level until later. I could use water to cool myself, whether in the bath tub or a trashca…

You're describing tactics that will lead to your tenuous survival. If the heat doesn't last too long. And if you don't have anyone else is your house, not a likely circumstance globally considered. Almost like 35C wet is not very survivable. Your claim that 35C wet can be tolerated by most for hours contradicts the article, and your claim that it's more tolerable than 70C dry contradicts the concept of heat index. An…

I feel sorry for you.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#403

Post by ericmay »

hasmanean wrote: post #396
ericmay wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Jacobabad crossed the 35C wet bulb threshold in July 1987, then again in June 2005, June 2010 and July 2012. Each time the boundary may have been breached for only a few hours, but a three-day average maximum temperature has been recorded hovering around 34C in June 2010, June 2001 and July 2012. Jeez what a hot place... Any idea what geographic features make it so dang hot? It's not too far from water (just lookin…

I lived about a hundred miles from Jacobabad in 1987. It was known as the hottest place in the world then along with Sibi to the north. I remember 50C temperatures but it was dry and I used to walk outside to the market around noon. Once my school principal saw me walking without a hat that summer and lectured me about safety but I didn’t feel anything bad. It helped that I was thin and had a high surface are to volu…

Thanks for sharing!

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#404

Post by snovv_crash »

formerly_proven wrote: post #256
snovv_crash wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it basically the same as the dew point temperature? I believe a lot more people are familiar with that.

No, dew point is the temperature of an object on which air will start to condensate (because cooling the given air to the dew point lets relative humidity rise above 100 %, i.e. condensation). Wet-bulb temperature is the lowest temperature an object can reach through evaporative cooling (i.e. humans). The two are the same only if relative humidity is 100 %: 100 % relative humidity means that if the air cools at all,…

But that's the same isn't it, because condensation is a reversible process, as evaporation. At some point they will balance, and this is the dew point.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#405

Post by Borrible »

Not exactly new news:

https://www.sciencealert.com/middle-east-may-be-uninhabitabl...

Fun fact:

With rising sea levels a lot of people there will be a lot nearer to a big enough body of water to cool their heat.

Or not, since the humidity at coastal areas is higher:

https://meteologix.com/ae/observations/wet-bulb-temperature....

But don't worry, ironically the people who so generously provided the raw materials needed to raise global temperatures and sea levels are equally working on solutions to keep their asses out of the heat and their feet from getting wet.

https://www.thenationalnews.com/uae/environment/climate-chan...

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02697459.2020.18...

From the abstract of the last paper, which isn't fully available online, sadly: "...this paper ventures regional planning responses to adapt to these threats through decentralising populations to inland areas."

Dispersion to the inland areas?

Sure, but the inland areas of which countries?

...

But if they are lucky, they will maybe provide the material for cool and vast underground arcologies that could even reduce carbon dioxide emission from the building industry:

https://www.bft-international.com/en/artikel/bft_Environment...

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#406

Post by cutemonster »

stavros wrote: post #194
stevekemp wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with lots of people in water is that leads to drownings. "There is a clear connection between heat and drowning. That's when people want to go in or near the water, and the risks of drowning increase," FSL's Executive Director Kristiina Heinonen told Yle in July: https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/drowning_deaths_reach_10-...

Well yes, and the problem with lots of people out of the water is that it leads to traffic accidents. Is there a name for this fallacy that proclaims things risky by comparing them to a theoretical situation where everyone is immortal?

There's a difference in that deadly heat can make people who cannot swim, start panic crowding in the water in tens of thousands of people large groups?

Sounds to me like a mostly not seen before thing

> Is there a name

"False analogy" is what comes to my mind, maybe there's something better

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#407

Post by cutemonster »

Qem wrote: post #400
beamatronic wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The smart thing to do now would be for everyone around to world to start digging underground relief shelters.

Probably everyone painting their roofs white would help too.

And starting with this, (digging, climbing the roof) when it's warm already isn't going to end well

The municipalities in the relevant places ought to advice people to prepare well in advance (and how)

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#408

Post by stavros »

cutemonster wrote: post #406
stavros wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes, and the problem with lots of people out of the water is that it leads to traffic accidents. Is there a name for this fallacy that proclaims things risky by comparing them to a theoretical situation where everyone is immortal?

There's a difference in that deadly heat can make people who cannot swim, start panic crowding in the water in tens of thousands of people large groups? Sounds to me like a mostly not seen before thing > Is there a name "False analogy" is what comes to my mind, maybe there's something better

> start panic crowding in the water in tens of thousands of people large groups?

I guess it depends on where you are, I live on the Mediterranean, where, if you panic in the water, you're just standing in calm water. I imagine the ocean is much scarier.

> maybe there's something better

I think we do need something better, I see it too often for it to not have an exact name.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#409

Post by cutemonster »

stavros wrote: post #408
cutemonster wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference in that deadly heat can make people who cannot swim, start panic crowding in the water in tens of thousands of people large groups? Sounds to me like a mostly not seen before thing > Is there a name "False analogy" is what comes to my mind, maybe there's something better

> start panic crowding in the water in tens of thousands of people large groups? I guess it depends on where you are, I live on the Mediterranean, where, if you panic in the water, you're just standing in calm water. I imagine the ocean is much scarier. > maybe there's something better I think we do need something better, I see it too often for it to not have an exact name.

> I guess it depends on where you are

Yes, in my case I was imagining a wide river close to a many millions people city, and people from the slums (no AC) go there to cool down, and more and more people arrive all the time to the river, pushing those already there outwards, deeper water, people cannot swim

At rock concerts 10 000 people can create dangerous pressure, I wonder if a deadly heat wave and the chance to cool down at a specific place can do that too

Or maybe people would spread out along the water, but at the same time, it might be hard for an individual person with occluded vision to know what makes sense to do

Sometimes people rush out from a building in panic, everyone gets stuck in the door opening

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#410

Post by briantakita »

mrpopo wrote: post #389
briantakita wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IPCC is focusing on sensationalist & self-admitted "unlikely" models in their editorials. It's not even the majority view of the models that are being trumped up. Sensation sells. Money talks. The role of human emissions as the key driver of climate change has plenty of doubt & plenty of money involved pushing a pre-determined outcome with the purpose of imposing taxes & centralizing power. In the meantime, human…

No one discusses IPCC reports. It came out this week, and was discussed at most 10 min per day on major news channels. IPCC scientists are volunteering for the report, they are not wealthy. They are literally spending their own free time and money writing thousand-pages long reports. You just choose not to believe the most rational answer because it's inconvenient.

The most rational answer is that the Geomagnetic excursion is causing many of this strange weather phenomenon, amplifying Solar forcing to unprecedented level in modern times, & that the modern warm period has peaked & we are going into a Grand Solar Minimum.

Most of the models factor in Solar Forcing, which was only introduced in CMIP6, to varying degrees. This means models based on This meta-analysis shows the different models & how the different factors are weighted.

http://www.raa-journal.org/docs/papers_accepted/2020-0449.pd...

> You just choose not to believe the most rational answer because it's inconvenient.

Key word is "believe". You have a belief & your scientific opinion follows that belief. Are you willing to look at the data from the perspective of other beliefs? Are you open to unknown unknowns? If not, you are in danger of practicing Pseudoscience with a pre-determined outcome. Your "belief" determines your understanding of nature.

What's "convenient" is to go along to get along, make as much money as possible over APGW, & receive the social validation that one is "saving the world". There's plenty of money, personal reputation, & many careers that depend on APGW being an "existential crisis".

You should consider if you just choose not to believe the most rational answer because it's inconvenient.

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