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FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

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Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#81

Post by izacus »

aboringusername wrote: post #43
whocares2345 wrote: post #25

Is there any particular reason the author paying rent via donations is different from any of us paying rent from our work? You decided to use Googles distribution platform and infrastructure while not sharing the revenue - fully knowing it is illegal in the Play Store to accept payments outside of the platform. Basically you attempted to steal the efforts Google invested in creating and promoting Android, it’s develo…

Sorry but this is why we need regulation and fast. We need by default other app stores on all operating systems (similar to search engines Google were forced to advertise) Google should have to compete on merit and if somebody doesn't want to give Google/Apple a cut, too bad. These platforms should probably not be placed under the control of such large entities, Android/iOS should be split into their own organisation…

There's absolutely nothing stopping the author from distributing his app in following ways:

- on F-Droid, an app store dedicated for OSS software

- on Samsung Store, an app store preinstalled on most Android phones sold in US and other western world

- on Amazon store

- on Huawei app store

- on their own webpage as a downloadable APK

But what they really want is to use Googles distribution system while not paying the margin.

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#82

Post by ribosometronome »

xtracto wrote: post #73
legrande wrote: post #27

Just so people know, the two dominating app stores are under scrutiny because of the monopoly they have on the market: https://www.wsj.com/articles/app-store-competition-targeted-... https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/11/tech/apple-google-app-sto... https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/11/22620454/apple-google-app...

As they are, app stores are crap. They are a huge control mechanism to stiff competition. For those of you who are old enough: Imagine if in 2000, Microsoft released "Windows Me" with something similar (for PC) to what Apple or Google are doing in the current dominant computing device form factor (Mobile). It just would not have been tolerated. Adobe, Netscape, Autodesk, Corel and others having to pay Microsoft a 15%…

A Microsoft operating system was on 97% of all computing devices in the year 2000, even higher if you narrow the definition to something like "home computer".

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#83

Post by RHSeeger »

jfrunyon wrote: post #57
itake wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please elaborate why you would think this is a mistake and Google should side step the app store rules applied to all businesses? This income is clearly taxable. The play store offers a 50% discount for small apps. Is it because the payment is optional (and doesn't unlock new features) that make you think this should be except from Google's rules (and potentially taxes?)?

"Purchases that require Google Play's billing system: Digital items, Subscription services, App functionality or content, Cloud software and services" https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... "Developers charging for apps and downloads from Google Play must use Google Play's billing system as the method of payment. Play-distributed apps must use Google Play's billing system as the method of pay…

While I understand what you're saying here, I would guess that it's seen as bypassing the intent of the rules, if not their specific wording.

If I put an app up on the app store for free, then link to my site and ask for donations, I am effectively using the app store for free. The app in question is effectively setup to say "you don't need to pay for this app, but we would really like you too"... and then the payment is handled outside the play store. Arguing over whether it should be called payment or a donation doesn't really change the fact that is it the user giving money to the developer because of the app; the app they got on the play store. That's the behavior that the rule in intended to avoid.

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#84

Post by josephcsible »

ribosometronome wrote: post #74
legrande wrote: post #27

Just so people know, the two dominating app stores are under scrutiny because of the monopoly they have on the market: https://www.wsj.com/articles/app-store-competition-targeted-... https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/11/tech/apple-google-app-sto... https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/11/22620454/apple-google-app...

How can two app stores have a _mono_poly?

Compare the situation to ISPs. There's Comcast, Cox, Charter, etc., but a given location is often only served by one of them, so they don't actually compete with each other. Similarly, nobody has a choice between those two app stores. iOS users can't use the Google Play Store, and Android users can't use the Apple App Store.

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#85

Post by izacus »

danShumway wrote: post #59
itake wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please elaborate why you would think this is a mistake and Google should side step the app store rules applied to all businesses? This income is clearly taxable. The play store offers a 50% discount for small apps. Is it because the payment is optional (and doesn't unlock new features) that make you think this should be except from Google's rules (and potentially taxes?)?

I don't think anyone is saying this has anything to do with the payment being optional or the app being Open Source. Google's interpretation of its rules (assuming that this isn't just a mistake) is that an app can't link in-app to any source or page if there's a way to get from that page to a payment processor. Imagine if you went into Walmart, bought an Android phone, and then when you turned the phone on Google wa…

> Imagine if you went into Walmart, bought an Android phone, and then when you turned the phone on Google wasn't allowed to show you any links in the Android OS to their support pages because technically you can navigate from the support pages to the online Google store and then buy another phone from them directly without giving Walmart a cut.

No, imagine if you went into Walmart, picked up an item for free and then used PayPal to sidestep Walmarts margin. And then threw a giant fuss because Walmart stopped stocking that free item.

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#86

Post by k33l3r4pp »

aboringusername wrote: post #7

This is absolutely outrageous and disgusting from Google. I cannot believe how at the rate the world is changing (pace wise, with each new technological breakthrough) the law simply cannot keep pace. We've allowed AI systems unfettered, unrestricted access to our lives. AI is being deployed with absolutely no oversight (Apple's CSAM comes to mind), I'm not even sure there are any laws at all. How can apple just deplo…

How about we just stop 100% trusting Google?

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#87

Post by geofft »

aboringusername wrote: post #7

This is absolutely outrageous and disgusting from Google. I cannot believe how at the rate the world is changing (pace wise, with each new technological breakthrough) the law simply cannot keep pace. We've allowed AI systems unfettered, unrestricted access to our lives. AI is being deployed with absolutely no oversight (Apple's CSAM comes to mind), I'm not even sure there are any laws at all. How can apple just deplo…

A human did this. See the screenshots on the post - there's a screenshot of the home page, followed by a screenshot of the donation page, followed by a screenshot of PayPal. Quoting TFA:

> That's right; someone at Google reviewed this app, visited the LT website, scrolled to the very bottom of the page, and clicked through twice to find a way to contribute funds to the project. Our app isn't allowed to link to the homepage of the project's own website unless we completely remove our users' ability to discover a way to give us money."

So that's the answer to your question. AI is irrelevant here because existing processes that are performed by humans are unaccountable or unjust, too.

(This is my problem with "AI foom" doomsaying, by the way: we've clearly gotten to a point without AI where groups of humans, acting in individually rational ways, have built a monstrous system that nobody can either understand in its entirety or effectively oppose. We got there centuries ago, for that matter, at least as far back as when the phrase "invisible hand" was invented. The problem here is not that we have moved accountability from a human to an AI, it's that we've moved accountability from a human to a corporation, and it is quite obviously unjust to hold the individual anonymous Google reviewer responsible for accurately following the instructions of their minimum-wage job, but we also have no way to find the PM or exec who wrote these policies and they probably don't even know what the impact of those policies is.)

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#88

Post by Johnny555 »

BelenusMordred wrote: post #24
squarefoot wrote: post #18

Tell Google how you feel about that by searching "google app store alternatives", then installing Aurora Store. https://auroraoss.com/ https://gitlab.com/AuroraOSS From the Aurora Store FAQ: What is the difference between Aurora Store and Google's Play store? Unlike Google's Play Store, Aurora Store doesn't track your downloads or the apps you use. We respect your privacy. Aurora Store is also unaffected by Google ma…

Always amuses me when using google to search for f-droid . Google will always insist you meant android and show you those results instead, which of course is the play store version if it exists.

I searched for "ssh f-droid" and the top 4 results were f-droid SSH apps, then a link to a reddit post, and then a link to JuiceSSH on the Play store.

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#89

Post by SquishyPanda23 »

jfrunyon wrote: post #57
itake wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please elaborate why you would think this is a mistake and Google should side step the app store rules applied to all businesses? This income is clearly taxable. The play store offers a 50% discount for small apps. Is it because the payment is optional (and doesn't unlock new features) that make you think this should be except from Google's rules (and potentially taxes?)?

"Purchases that require Google Play's billing system: Digital items, Subscription services, App functionality or content, Cloud software and services" https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... "Developers charging for apps and downloads from Google Play must use Google Play's billing system as the method of payment. Play-distributed apps must use Google Play's billing system as the method of pay…

The screenshot says that the violation is on the other part of the policy:

"Google Play's billing system must not be used in cases where:... payments include peer-to-peer payments, online auctions, and tax exempt donations;"

That is, according to the screenshot in the GitHub PR, the app was removed for using the Google Play billing system when they shouldn't be using it. It was not removed for failing to use the Google Play Billing system when they should have been.

I have no idea how they might have been using Google Play billing. There is no billing code on GitHub that I see. Maybe they turned on billing on the Play Store accidentally, or maybe the screenshot has the wrong policy violation.

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#90

Post by SquareWheel »

BelenusMordred wrote: post #24
squarefoot wrote: post #18

Tell Google how you feel about that by searching "google app store alternatives", then installing Aurora Store. https://auroraoss.com/ https://gitlab.com/AuroraOSS From the Aurora Store FAQ: What is the difference between Aurora Store and Google's Play store? Unlike Google's Play Store, Aurora Store doesn't track your downloads or the apps you use. We respect your privacy. Aurora Store is also unaffected by Google ma…

Always amuses me when using google to search for f-droid . Google will always insist you meant android and show you those results instead, which of course is the play store version if it exists.

Worked fine here.

https://i.imgur.com/2vWBEG4.png

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