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Could You Modify It ‘To Stop Students From Becoming This Advanced?’

cato-at-liberty.org

21–30 of 241 posts

Re: Could You Modify It ‘To Stop Students From Becoming This Advanced?’

#21

Could also mean that some teachers don't want the headache of dealing with a class with even greater disparities in skill and knowledge. It's hard enough dealing with a couple students bored in class cause they already know it. It's even harder to deal with half the class bored cause they already know it. Or it could really mean anything. Removed from context and the teacher's deeper reasoning, these quotes are large…

This. He took an out of context quote, and almost immediately appended his ideology to the end of it.

Honestly I think this should be marked as flamebait and ignored.

Re: Could You Modify It ‘To Stop Students From Becoming This Advanced?’

#22
post #4

Really interesting, shocking quote from the original article, but the Cato free-market spin is questionable and not terribly well suited to Hacker News, IMO. The original Wired piece is great, though.

I'm probably the biggest libertarian you'd meet (that doesn't live in his or her mom's basement) and I feel like HN is pretty friendly to my thinking.

I agree. And I have no problem with people having their opinions. I know it feels like my own beliefs are in the minority here, and I don't have a problem with that, but Hacker News is always a better site when it sticks to what it's best at: hacking, technology and entrepreneurship. The politics and religion discussions here are always huge distractions.

Re: Could You Modify It ‘To Stop Students From Becoming This Advanced?’

#23
post #4

Really interesting, shocking quote from the original article, but the Cato free-market spin is questionable and not terribly well suited to Hacker News, IMO. The original Wired piece is great, though.

I'm probably the biggest libertarian you'd meet (that doesn't live in his or her mom's basement) and I feel like HN is pretty friendly to my thinking.

Maybe he means the guidelines: "off-topic: most articles about politics". Anything from Cato is going to be politics.

Re: Could You Modify It ‘To Stop Students From Becoming This Advanced?’

#24

I suppose it's a Cato blog post, but I was hoping for a more interesting discussion than just a random call for private education, with a market-will-solve it assertion. People learning at different paces and on their own is a fairly interesting problem highlighted here, but I think it's wishful thinking to claim that the perfect answer is already known. It's not entirely clear to me that private schools would cater…

It's not entirely clear to me that private schools would cater to individuals, or group by ability in the way that tutors do.

My wife taught at a private school for some years that did that. They had the traditonal grade levels, coursework was modified for the student.

They had to have the grade levels: it was K-8, placing students back in public schools, or a private high school, is really difficult if you don't.

This was a learning disabled private school, so your mileage may vary.

Re: Could You Modify It ‘To Stop Students From Becoming This Advanced?’

#25
post #6

It's a very bad way of putting it - but I think there's a valid discussion needed around whether schools should enforce 'rounded' education - I think the question is essentially what should we do students who are at 10th grade maths and 5th grade social science? Should we allow earlier education specialization? (ie move them up grades but accept they'll be lacking in some areas) Or keep them in 5th grade until they a…

Should we allow earlier education specialization? (ie move them up grades but accept they'll be lacking in some areas) Or keep them in 5th grade until they are sufficiently good in all areas - maybe allowing them skip classes they're already excelling in so they have more free time for self-study?

You're simply accepting that "grades" are an ideal concept, and that in order for a kid to learn higher math, they also have to accelerate English, history, etc. If you remove the concept of grades from the picture, you no longer have to call a kid who's really good at math a math specialist...you can just say he's very advanced at math, and on par with his age group at English and history and science.

Remove the preconceived notion that everyone needs to be studying the same thing in order to be in the same "grade", and you don't have this problem. Obviously some kids can self-direct their education to some degree. So, why not let them? If they can advance this way via online instruction, why on earth would you want to stand in their way?

I had a lot of bitterness about my school experience, because I was so often bored and slowed by the pace of my classmates. If I'd had the ability to set my own pace, I would have been much happier and much more successful. We're beginning to have the technology to allow kids to go at their own pace...it's obvious to me (and should be to any other adult who was a "gifted" kid growing up but shackled by the limitations of public school) that the only ethical thing to do is let kids learn as fast as they want to learn. It's the teachers and schools job to figure out how to accommodate that learning, not try to shackle it to a pace that matches the least common denominator.

Re: Could You Modify It ‘To Stop Students From Becoming This Advanced?’

#27

It doesn't surprise me at all. The incentives are all wrong. Teachers are incentivized to push students to the next grade with as little fuss as possible. They aren't ever asked to help kids improve themselves... Only to make sure they learned the minimum required knowledge. That teachers would ask that students be kept ignorant just to make their job easier does not surprise me a bit. To be clear, not all teachers a…

In my wife's experience as a teacher, it's not the teacher who is incentivized to push students through, or even the one doing the pushing.

If the parent wants the student to advance to the next grade, the system says that they advance, often over the strenuous objections from the teacher who knows the student has no business advancing.

Re: Could You Modify It ‘To Stop Students From Becoming This Advanced?’

#28
That is why the for-profit Asian tutoring industry groups students by performance, not by age. There are “grades,” but they do not depend on when a student was born, only on what she knows and is able to do.

I just interviewed Andrew Hsu for Startups Open Sourced and he mentioned this was very important in education. He had scored so high on his IQ test at 6 years old he was classified as "genius" and received 3 B.S. degrees at 16, and then dropped out of his Stanford Ph.D. at 19 to do a startup. One thing he says really makes a difference is splitting students based on skill level, not by age. Hoping to release the interview soon.

Re: Could You Modify It ‘To Stop Students From Becoming This Advanced?’

#29
post #26

I like the US college system. In each track, you move along at the appropriate speed and levels.

College is not working - by the time kids graduate most of what they 'learned' in the classroom is outdated. College if anything is just a good place to gain 'social experiences'.

Re: Could You Modify It ‘To Stop Students From Becoming This Advanced?’

#30
This isn't surprising. There was actually an experimental elementary school in my town that was eventually shut down because the students were too advanced in math, so once they got to middle school it started causing political issues. Rather than having the other three elementary schools adopt the same system, they literally demolished the school and replaced it with a parking lot. There is actually a pretty good book about the whole incident called Public Schools Should Learn To Ski.
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