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It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

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Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#141
post #40
post #8

Who still believes global warming does not exist? I am currently listening to audiobook of Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six (1998). It has a paragraph on global warming and trying to convince POTUS it is real. And POTUS not wanting to act on it because it would be too large economic drag on US. This book is almost quarter of century old.

The important policy question is what are big and small governments around the world gonna do about it? No, straws and plastic bags won’t abate it. Electric cars are nice but won’t do much to lessen emissions. They need to address industry, shipping and population growth. The last one might be a third rail for some countries. But look, China did it. The west did it (via progress on education, etc).

Banning straws is virtue signaling. (Plastic straws have little impact on waste.)

Banning plastic bags has immediate results in containing visible litter.

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#143
post #78
post #50

The current administration has approved more than 2,000 new fracking permits. I'm so glad the US has rejoined the Paris Agreement. "Meet the new boss Same as the old boss"

I am very left, and despise Biden's refusal to address climate change where it counts, like fraking. But honestly, the new boss is not the same as the old boss, even with climate change. The new boss does in fact acknowledge it exists, rather than insisting that all climate change is a hoax and it is invented by China to hurt the US. Biden is not making the progress I'd like to see, but he is in no way as bad as the…

This is nonsense. Whether someone virtue signals or not, actions are what's important, not words.

The CO2 emissions output has been coming down since the high in 2006. With the old boss and the new boss.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/183943/us-carbon-dioxide...

If anything, fracking helped the environment, since it offset resources being mined by the traditional, more wasteful methods.

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#144
post #90
post #8

Who still believes global warming does not exist? I am currently listening to audiobook of Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six (1998). It has a paragraph on global warming and trying to convince POTUS it is real. And POTUS not wanting to act on it because it would be too large economic drag on US. This book is almost quarter of century old.

Maybe if the cost of it was reasonable more people would bother. With the cost of electricity rising, people naturally buy/replace appliances with more efficient versions. The fact that anything green related costs an arm and a leg makes some people think it's all a money making scheme. The more renewable energy gets installed the more articles like this pop up. We get it, people are worried about the climate, pushin…

You should not be downvoted for stating your opinion, I think it adds to the conversation.

That being said, can you elaborate on how "anything green related" costs an arm and a leg? Do you have a few examples maybe?

If it refers to something like organic food, then, well, yeah... mass producing food without regard for anything but efficiency in creating said food will make it cheaper, not doing that means higher prices for still turning out a profit.

But I don't want to put words in your mouth, please say what you were thinking of.

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#145
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important policy question is what are big and small governments around the world gonna do about it? No, straws and plastic bags won’t abate it. Electric cars are nice but won’t do much to lessen emissions. They need to address industry, shipping and population growth. The last one might be a third rail for some countries. But look, China did it. The west did it (via progress on education, etc).

Banning plastic straws and plastic bags wasn't to combat climate change, the bans were created because those single-use plastics were overwhelming municipal garbage disposal systems. And then foreign states stop buying it to recycle.

It’s still nonsense because the volume created by these things is minuscule. All it is is Greta feel-good bullshit. Household goods, transport packaging, industrial uses those account for the majority of plastics by mass. Yeah sure, 100 billion plastic straws sounds like a lot, but it’s nothing compared to the main culprits.

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the deniers I know have shifted from it doesn't exist to either its not man made and just a natural cycle or it may actually be a good thing because plants like CO2 and warmth...

I think part of the problem is that we started talking about global warming (“nice! More sunshine!!”) to climate change (“cool! We get too much snow here anyway!!”). Maybe instead of talking about climate change, which is a symptom and not the problem, we should talk about “destabilising the atmosphere”. I feel like people will find it harder to use nonsense arguments if they’re confronted with the problem rather tha…

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change was formed in 1988. It was always called climate change.

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#147
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the more important headline is the numbers of climate change deniers is shrinking and the number of people who want to take action is growing. Half of all voters say it is a "critical threat," up from 40% in 2017 according to https://morningconsult.com/2021/04/27/paris-agreement-climat...

Unfortunately the difficulty increasing that percentage isn't linear. It'll probably look like the vaccine rollout where there's a pretty hard dropoff in increases past a little over 50%.

10 points in 4 years is pretty good! And this is from April; I wonder if it'd be different now after this brutal summer.

But yeah the real problem is the gains in concern came pretty much entirely from Democrats and Independents.

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#148
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the deniers I know have shifted from it doesn't exist to either its not man made and just a natural cycle or it may actually be a good thing because plants like CO2 and warmth...

The "it's not man made" and "just a natural cycle" is easily disproven by showing historical temperatures change where it does, by pure accident, a hockey stick trick just last century. Or it would if the audience wasn't resistant to proofs altogether...

50 million years ago, there were forests in the arctic and the earth was much hotter than it is right now. Climate change comes in both man-made and natural varieties, and it's important to acknowledge the difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eocene

Re: It’s official: July was Earth’s hottest month on record

#150
post #22
post #8

Who still believes global warming does not exist? I am currently listening to audiobook of Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six (1998). It has a paragraph on global warming and trying to convince POTUS it is real. And POTUS not wanting to act on it because it would be too large economic drag on US. This book is almost quarter of century old.

I was very much a skeptic until I started seeing more and more real world (as opposed to just models) evidence. I am pretty convinced now. My skepticism was rooted in the fact that politicians, pundits, and the media were trying to scare me about it. Any time politicians or the media try to scare me about anything my default response is to assume it's a get out the vote drive or a power grab and to become extremely s…

OP was voted down by others but I respect their honesty about it. And the point about their perception of fear being used as a motivator and resulting skepticism. I think a lot of people feel this way.

I think people are "crisis hardened" at this point. So much news and opinion about most everything is framed as a "crisis" and people are just sort of tuned out to it and they're sick of being made anxious about everything. It feels a whole lot better to have someone else say "don't listen, they're just trying to scare you to get power" and people will tune into that eventually.

I think people see hypocrisy all over the place as well, especially in the climate issue and people hate being preached to. People hate hearing that they shouldn't have meat, they shouldn't have a car, they shouldn't fly, etc. They fear the currently proposed solutions like taxing these heavily or rationing it. Simply put, people at large will not get behind a massive project like this politically until it is sold as something that makes their lives better. That they don't have to give these things up but that we should work towards doing them better.

It's especially difficult with this issue too since it's been sold poorly (global warning, then why is it freezing today?!) and it's a very slow process when considering a human's life. Yes, the data we have and the models we have are compelling. However, denial is a powerful thing especially when people are told to listen to an authority that wants to take their pleasures away.

I just don't think going around calling other people idiots or asking why they didn't just listen to scientists (science and especially scientists are not infallible.) is very useful. To get a super majority behind this we need to sell it as a project to not take away anything but to find new ways of doing it without putting excessive CO2 into the atmosphere. That you can have a steak, and a car, and un your AC, and travel but that we also need to agree to finance projects in making these things sustainable. That engineering ourselves a better future is possible and that stopping doing things doesn't have to be the way.

I don't know, I just think psychology of how it is being sold is ineffective. Unlivable conditions, death, the Earth's destruction should motivate people but the threat just isn't imminent enough for people to sacrifice. I think it does the opposite and sends people looking for a safe place where it's going to be OK and anyone who tells you otherwise is just trying to pick your pocket. Our style of government is not great at unifying around big projects and unless the threat is clearly imminent and/or in progress. We need persuasion to win and positive visions for the future to get there.

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