This may be unpopular, but the hard thing in this discussion is to differentiate between consumption and investment. It does not help much to take wealth in terms of equity paper money away from people who know how to invest it efficiently and distribute it. On the other hand, there are minimum basic needs for consumption of food, health services, shelter, education etc. I agree that the system to finance those servi…
"It does not help much to take wealth in terms of equity paper money away from people who know how to invest it efficiently and distribute it." This assumes what needs to be proven. Namely, the degree to which the wealth of billionaries under the status quo regulatory, financial, and tax regime reflects their outsized contributions to welfare. If we make a number of assumptions (e.g. perfect information, perfect comp…
Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires
131–140 of 246 posts
Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
But once you get $20M, why would you continue working? You've got $20M, and enough passive income from those $20M to cover your expenses... why would you continue growing your business, employing more people, and doing more? I mean.. a $20M bakery is a huge bakery with a lot of people... but a $20M car factory is basically nothing.
No one owns a car factory; it's divided into shares. And anyone now with $20M can retire. And I don't think the problem would be that so many people hit $20M that everyone retired.
Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires
#133Same as it ever was. Who needs to pay more taxes? Those people over there.
Who needs to pay more taxes? Those people who aren't paying their fair share. Especially those who are using their wealth / power to get out of paying taxes.
Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
The tax could be such that you are forced to turn over shares in the company to the state. The bigger you get, the more shares you have to give to them, the more influence they have on company decisions. In theory, this would act sort of as a general purpose regulation. Instead of using the force of law to make companies comply, it uses the force of its share votes. Of course, there are a bunch of ways this kind of s…
What does the government know about managing tech companies?
Like I said, there's still a lot that could go wrong with that scheme, but it isn't like the current scheme doesn't have its problems too.
Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, that's a problem. But it's not as big a problem as the current economic divide. The very wealthiest have superfluous amounts of money -- enough to pay to find loopholes so that they pay no taxes. If there was an island with 100 people and one person had almost all of the coconuts and others were starving, no one will care about details for very long. Fix it now because people won't ask nicely for long.
Suppose that's the only person who knows how to grow and harvest coconuts, and those coconuts are the seeds for next year. That's what real economies look like, not the simplistic naivety of so many Marxists who think that everyone is equally good at managing resources, and spreading out resources equally is just as good as investing them strategically. There are no simple answers to questions like this.
There have long been simple answers but we have been to greedy to look at them. We have been able to eradicate hunger, homelessness and educational poverty for a long time. We have just chosen not to.
I find it funny that so many people are terrified of being capped to $20M/person and so few are concerned about children sleeping outside, hungry.
Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires
#136This may be unpopular, but the hard thing in this discussion is to differentiate between consumption and investment. It does not help much to take wealth in terms of equity paper money away from people who know how to invest it efficiently and distribute it. On the other hand, there are minimum basic needs for consumption of food, health services, shelter, education etc. I agree that the system to finance those servi…
Along the points you bring up, John Cochrane had a fantastic series about why wealth taxes are such a terribly economic inefficient mechanism to raise revenue and why virtually no economists support them. https://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2020/01/wealth-and-taxes-...
if you take a more literal view and see federal taxation as destruction of money rather than a means of raising revenue, its applications become clearer.
Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not sure if they’ll be unhappy with their measly $20mm as much as they’ll be unhappy with not being allowed to continue playing the game. Imagine that any successful entrepreneur would be forced to sit on the sidelines after hitting $20mm of net worth.
Guess they'll have to start taking lessons from professional athletes who've had to figure out how to deal with not being able to "continue playing the game" and still be happy.
Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires
#138This may be unpopular, but the hard thing in this discussion is to differentiate between consumption and investment. It does not help much to take wealth in terms of equity paper money away from people who know how to invest it efficiently and distribute it. On the other hand, there are minimum basic needs for consumption of food, health services, shelter, education etc. I agree that the system to finance those servi…
> "the hard thing in this discussion is to differentiate between consumption and investment" Indeed. Even harder is to acknowledge our government already has enough tax money, and further tax revenue will not be used prudently, in the best interest of our country.
Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires
#139Until there's a wealth floor -- until everyone is fed, sheltered and has access to education, there needs to be a wealth cap. We, as a collective humanity, should not allow anyone to have more than, say, $20 million, until the basic needs of others have been met.
The problem with that is not really to do with equality, it's to do with who runs companies and where investment in the economy comes from, and how everyone's basic needs are met. This would take the ownership of huge swathes of the companies in the world out of the hands of the people who created them and operate them and into the hands of random executives with little or no track record. You're not going to meet an…
The point is that Musk would/should never have gotten to such an oversized amount of control in the first place, and thus these businesses wouldn't be in any danger at all from such a move because they'd already be staffed by competent people who wouldn't need his approval or "executive powers" to run things. And if Tesla and/or SpaceX can't stay afloat without Musk, then I'd argue they're failures, or at the very least shouldn't have gotten this big while still being dependent on him.
Besides, so what if companies fail? They're not people, they should never be more important than people. As long as the people are taken care of we should be fine with businesses failing. It leaves room for others, and stops tying up human output for unproductive endeavors.
> This would take the ownership of huge swathes of the companies in the world out of the hands of the people who created them and operate them and into the hands of random executives with little or no track record.
Who's giving you this idea? The whole point is to give more power/control back to the people running those companies, i.e. the workers making stuff, serving people, maintaining, etc. No-one is arguing to blindly dilute ownership of companies among the populace _just_ to keep from having billionaires. This is scare-mongering at its finest.
> Finally, if everyone who's currently an investor in these companies, but has more than $20m also get taxed down to $20m, who is going to buy all the shares?
The wealth being taxed doesn't just vanish into thin air. If so many currently wealthy investors are being taxed down, it stands to reason that the redistribution of said wealth would mean that _more_ investors appear. Also, from an ideological point of view, it seems more democratic to have many smaller investors, than allow a few to accrete such wealth that they can do such things as bully or starve projects of investment for personal reasons.
> It's nonsense like this that is why Marxist experiments the world over have caused such havoc and misery on unimaginably vast scales
Funny how someone who immediately thinks to reference "Marxist experiments" in response to an argument for better wealth redistribution, can't envision an economy without a top-level executive being vital for a company to survive, or investments being impossible if 1 person can't do it all by themselves. Seems like a really fragile model to me. Meanwhile, these Marxist experiments aren't broiling the planet for an extra 50 years to milk profit off of fossil fuels, nor expecting people to sacrifice their health and time to themselves to work 50-,60-,70- hour workweeks without getting an ounce of recognition whether they do a good job or just adequate. Or how about leaving people to die of poverty because there's no direct profit to be had in them?
Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, that's a problem. But it's not as big a problem as the current economic divide. The very wealthiest have superfluous amounts of money -- enough to pay to find loopholes so that they pay no taxes. If there was an island with 100 people and one person had almost all of the coconuts and others were starving, no one will care about details for very long. Fix it now because people won't ask nicely for long.
Right so instead we should take one of those 100 people and give them the power of violence to take all the coconuts and distribute as they see fit. Likely to their friends and family. So we end up with the same scenario again, inequality persists only this time it’s because of a centralized authority figure that now has a monopoly on violence.