Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires • Hacker News Board

Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#121

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 3:59 PM UTC

andreilys wrote: post #83

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tax could be such that you are forced to turn over shares in the company to the state. The bigger you get, the more shares you have to give to them, the more influence they have on company decisions. In theory, this would act sort of as a general purpose regulation. Instead of using the force of law to make companies comply, it uses the force of its share votes. Of course, there are a bunch of ways this kind of s…

Centralizing state power has never gone wrong in the history of humanity right? And we all know how efficient government bureaucrats are. I can just imagine the joys of having civil servants dictating how you should run your company.

> And we all know how efficient government bureaucrats are.

A common refrain in the private sector, but having worked in both I can assure you that any sufficiently large organization is at least as inefficient as a government.

> I can just imagine the joys of having civil servants dictating how you should run your company.

We do that today through regulation. There are reasons we collectively want some level of control over how companies are run.

Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#122

Post by simonh » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 4:00 PM UTC

dcow wrote: post #110

simonh wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that is not really to do with equality, it's to do with who runs companies and where investment in the economy comes from, and how everyone's basic needs are met. This would take the ownership of huge swathes of the companies in the world out of the hands of the people who created them and operate them and into the hands of random executives with little or no track record. You're not going to meet an…

I agree, the problem is much more intricate and solutions need to be far more nuanced than “tax everyone down to 20m”. I was thinking the other day about companies and the impetus behind patents. I agree we want Elon and Jobs and Bezos to have ownership and run the show, like they do now, and with as much “wealth” and power as they have, exclusively, for some amount of time. But I’m not sure if we want the mass of po…

I prefer a robust system of inheritance taxes. Build your company, run it, do a good job and reap the rewards, but there's no reason all of that must go to your descendants as against anyone else. Provide for them sure, even lavishly, but in the millions not tens or hundreds of millions.

There are a lot of people in the US deeply dissatisfied with the levels of inequality and the way the deck is stacked against low earners. That does need to be addresses, but plenty of countries have done so without turning to outright Communism and Marxism. Is Britain a Marxist state because it has a robust social security and public health system? Is Germany?

Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#123

Post by jayjader » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 4:00 PM UTC

ericd wrote: post #113

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tax could be such that you are forced to turn over shares in the company to the state. The bigger you get, the more shares you have to give to them, the more influence they have on company decisions. In theory, this would act sort of as a general purpose regulation. Instead of using the force of law to make companies comply, it uses the force of its share votes. Of course, there are a bunch of ways this kind of s…

That sounds hilariously demoralizing. Talk about Pavlovian training in the wrong direction, every time I find a way to boost the value of my company, I have to sign more of it over the government.

It depend on what is done with said boost. It would go straight into your wallet? Makes perfect sense to me for the government to get an additional cut. It would go straight into the companies' salaries? No reason for the government to touch it more than it already does.

Obviously, there's room for nuance and it's not just one or the other.

Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#124

Post by captainredbeard » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 4:01 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #13

captainredbeard wrote: post #2

_Some_ millionaires call for...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word

Perhaps in a different context. In this one, I am pointing out that the headline implies that millionaires, as a collective group, are pushing for taxing billionaires. By adding "some", it points out the absurdity of the title. If I were talking about a group of people in a "No True Scotsman" sense, then yes, "some" would be a weasel word.

Thanks for learning!

Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#125

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

ericd wrote: post #113

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tax could be such that you are forced to turn over shares in the company to the state. The bigger you get, the more shares you have to give to them, the more influence they have on company decisions. In theory, this would act sort of as a general purpose regulation. Instead of using the force of law to make companies comply, it uses the force of its share votes. Of course, there are a bunch of ways this kind of s…

That sounds hilariously demoralizing. Talk about Pavlovian training in the wrong direction, every time I find a way to boost the value of my company, I have to sign more of it over the government.

Yes, that's kinda the point I think. You could save a bunch of money by filling your product with asbestos and making employees pee in jugs, or you could just, you know, not do that because then you have to hand over more control of your business to the government.

Granted, this also disincentives societally beneficial efficiency increases.

Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#126

Post by captainredbeard » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

david927 wrote: post #3

Until there's a wealth floor -- until everyone is fed, sheltered and has access to education, there needs to be a wealth cap. We, as a collective humanity, should not allow anyone to have more than, say, $20 million, until the basic needs of others have been met.

What qualifies you to make pronouncements about how the world should work?

Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#127

Post by david927 » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #78

david927 wrote: post #3

Until there's a wealth floor -- until everyone is fed, sheltered and has access to education, there needs to be a wealth cap. We, as a collective humanity, should not allow anyone to have more than, say, $20 million, until the basic needs of others have been met.

But once you get $20M, why would you continue working? You've got $20M, and enough passive income from those $20M to cover your expenses... why would you continue growing your business, employing more people, and doing more? I mean.. a $20M bakery is a huge bakery with a lot of people... but a $20M car factory is basically nothing.

No one owns a car factory; it's divided into shares. And anyone now with $20M can retire. And I don't think the problem would be that so many people hit $20M that everyone retired.

Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#128

Post by andreilys » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #121

andreilys wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Centralizing state power has never gone wrong in the history of humanity right? And we all know how efficient government bureaucrats are. I can just imagine the joys of having civil servants dictating how you should run your company.

> And we all know how efficient government bureaucrats are. A common refrain in the private sector, but having worked in both I can assure you that any sufficiently large organization is at least as inefficient as a government. > I can just imagine the joys of having civil servants dictating how you should run your company. We do that today through regulation. There are reasons we collectively want some level of cont…

We do that today through regulation. There are reasons we collectively want some level of control over how companies are run.

Regulations are different from a Washington bureaucrat far removed from your company having to approve your new fiscal year roadmap or plans to pivot the company

Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#129

Post by ruined » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 4:04 PM UTC

mdp2021 wrote: post #51

endisneigh wrote: post #49

I have no problem with billionaires personally. I do have a problem with people being billionaires if the "value" they've created is negative (obviously this is my opinion). Consider two billionaries: - One creates a cold nuclear fusion device the size of a 10" x 10" x 10" cube. You can plug anything to this device and it will power it, indefinitely. - Another gets little boys and girls addicted to some sort of super…

You seem to be implying that governments should be more attentive in taxing externalities.

seems more explicit than implying. there's no market mechanism to handle externalities by definition, if you're going to have a market you really ought to handle it somehow

Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#130

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 4:05 PM UTC

andreilys wrote: post #128

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And we all know how efficient government bureaucrats are. A common refrain in the private sector, but having worked in both I can assure you that any sufficiently large organization is at least as inefficient as a government. > I can just imagine the joys of having civil servants dictating how you should run your company. We do that today through regulation. There are reasons we collectively want some level of cont…

We do that today through regulation. There are reasons we collectively want some level of control over how companies are run. Regulations are different from a Washington bureaucrat far removed from your company having to approve your new fiscal year roadmap or plans to pivot the company

Why would that be significantly different than anyone else with a voting share? It's not like the government is incapable of hiring the kinds of people who sit on boards of directors.