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SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits higher infectivity and immune resistance

biorxiv.org

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Re: SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits higher infectivity and immune resistance

#51

Post by defaultname »

newacct583 wrote: post #15
thinkharderdev wrote: post #11

FYI. Higher immune resistance in this paper is relative the D614G (the original parent of all variants, so not the original Wuhan strain). As far as I understand Lambda is less immune/vaccine resistant than Delta and has been mostly outcompeted by Delta.

Indeed, lambda doesn't seem to be growing vs. delta anywhere. It's so frustrating to watch the media fall into this trap, just google "lambda covid" and you'll find a flood of breathless headlines about this "new dangerous variant" and like no warnings from any experts at all.

There are few "breathless headlines" about Lambda. Though notably it is the overwhelming dominant strain in Peru and other South American countries, having completely crowded out Delta and other variants.

I'm not a medical expert. I'm not a statistical expert. I don't purport any expertise or useful knowledge in those areas. But after millions of deaths and a complete worldwide changing of how we work, play and so on, it is remarkable how often HN discussions still fall to media blaming, incant accusations of fear mongering, etc.

If one were to believe the dominant HN commentary through virtually all of this pandemic, it has always been an overblown nothingburger, etc.

The media has done has a much better job at accurately informing than the comments that usually rise to the top in any HN-related discussion.

(to the point that I think any COVID related discussions should be flagged off HN at first sighting. There are a lot of spectacularly misinformed people on here who just muddy the waters with noise, and the net effect is always just misinformation)

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits higher infectivity and immune resistance

#52

Post by velcii »

arcticbull wrote: post #37
stalkersyndrome wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve got one vaccine that’s been blacklisted due to high prevalence of blood clots. We’ve got another made by a company that’s been embroiled in a 4-decade long controversy over asbestos in baby talcum powder that only recently issued a recall, denying it all the way and claiming it’s safe. I assure you, Zuck isn’t needed for any negativity here. These companies are awful and they’re not to be trusted. Period.

> We’ve got one vaccine that’s been blacklisted due to high prevalence of blood clots. The risk of getting a blood clot from the J&J vaccine is 400,000:1. This is less likely than dying of COVID in any age category. 0.00025%. The risk of dying in a car accident in America is 0.01% every year. So you're 40X more likely to die in a car accident this year alone than get a serious blood clot from the J&J vaccine. The ris…

> https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/safety-report-21.asp

This is based on voluntary reporting, which is known to have under reporting where even 10% events are not reported.

Even then the risk is a serious AEFI is 1 in 5095.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits higher infectivity and immune resistance

#53

Post by stalkersyndrome »

arcticbull wrote: post #44
stalkersyndrome wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah you’re putting your faith in a company whose talcum powder has been causing cancer for decades and saying “it doesn’t kill you it’s not that bad” It’s an experimental vaccine that hasn’t even been out for a year mate. Use some better judgement. “Oh but it prevents covid” - yeah and that powder helped with the rash too I’m sure.

> Yeah you’re putting your faith in a company whose talcum powder has been causing cancer for decades and saying “it doesn’t kill you it’s not that bad” No, I'm putting my faith in the CDC and VAERS, and an incredibly twitchy public willing to report absolutely anything and everything, in no small part because folks like you freak them out. > It’s an experimental vaccine that hasn’t even been out for a year mate. Use…

CDC is a political vehicle. It’s a tragedy what’s happened over the last year as they flip flop.

VAERS and it’s predecessors did not track this kind of thing even though they were explicitly made with the intention to. Their own workforce was puzzled as to why they weren’t deployed early on to track vaccine side effects.

Look, stick to the basics. If you’re going to appeal to authority find one with some backbone and preferably one with less profit motive.

CDC didn’t make the vaccine. J&J did. Neither knows what it will do over the next N years, and even if they did you’d be the last to know. You’ve got all the evidence you need in how J&J handled the powder case.

So no, I’m not taking the vaccine or the aspirin.

Everyone should question the competency and “trust us we know” attitudes of these companies. They’re the kind of people you only want to deal with when you absolutely have no choice.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits higher infectivity and immune resistance

#55

Post by arcticbull »

velcii wrote: post #52
arcticbull wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We’ve got one vaccine that’s been blacklisted due to high prevalence of blood clots. The risk of getting a blood clot from the J&J vaccine is 400,000:1. This is less likely than dying of COVID in any age category. 0.00025%. The risk of dying in a car accident in America is 0.01% every year. So you're 40X more likely to die in a car accident this year alone than get a serious blood clot from the J&J vaccine. The ris…

> https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/safety-report-21.asp This is based on voluntary reporting, which is known to have under reporting where even 10% events are not reported. Even then the risk is a serious AEFI is 1 in 5095.

VAERS reports are also correlative not causative, if you dig in, you can actually whittle down the reports pretty significantly.

I was referring specifically to the incidence of blood clots, not necessarily any AEFI.

I don't know enough about the NZ governments methodology to comment on your source.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits higher infectivity and immune resistance

#56

Post by brigandish »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #30
xienze wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not a single word about natural immunity. There’s major, major hesitance to giving natural immunity any credibility. The reason for that is an exercise left up to the reader.

Because the virus is dangerous. If you have the choice of getting immunity though a vaccine or by catching the virus, you should pick the vaccine. The whole point of immunity is not to get infected/sick in the first place. Getting infected so that you can become immune makes no sense at all.

There's more than one type or way to describe immunity, as this discussion[1] by experts on the virus shows.

[1] https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/25/four-scenarios-on-how-we...

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits higher infectivity and immune resistance

#57

Post by criticaltinker »

newacct583 wrote: post #15
thinkharderdev wrote: post #11

FYI. Higher immune resistance in this paper is relative the D614G (the original parent of all variants, so not the original Wuhan strain). As far as I understand Lambda is less immune/vaccine resistant than Delta and has been mostly outcompeted by Delta.

Indeed, lambda doesn't seem to be growing vs. delta anywhere. It's so frustrating to watch the media fall into this trap, just google "lambda covid" and you'll find a flood of breathless headlines about this "new dangerous variant" and like no warnings from any experts at all.

I agree that popular news and media outlets are hype driven and not typically concerned with helping people form an accurate and well-informed opinion.

> like no warnings from any experts at all

Citing the OP, one important takeaway is the warning that the Lambda variant may lead to breakthrough infections and further variants:

> Because the Lambda variant is a VOI, it might be considered that this variant is not an ongoing threat compared to the pandemic VOCs.

> However, because the Lambda variant is relatively resistant to the vaccine-induced antisera, it might be possible that this variant is feasible to cause breakthrough infection

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits higher infectivity and immune resistance

#58

Post by noobly »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #30
xienze wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not a single word about natural immunity. There’s major, major hesitance to giving natural immunity any credibility. The reason for that is an exercise left up to the reader.

Because the virus is dangerous. If you have the choice of getting immunity though a vaccine or by catching the virus, you should pick the vaccine. The whole point of immunity is not to get infected/sick in the first place. Getting infected so that you can become immune makes no sense at all.

Some forms of immunity decrease your ability to transmit to others, which protects those at risk, so it's not just about self-preservation.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits higher infectivity and immune resistance

#59

Post by Hasu »

jaywalk wrote: post #49
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the virus is dangerous. If you have the choice of getting immunity though a vaccine or by catching the virus, you should pick the vaccine. The whole point of immunity is not to get infected/sick in the first place. Getting infected so that you can become immune makes no sense at all.

A very large number of people got infected before they even had the opportunity to be vaccinated, so it's not just a simple choice of catching the virus or getting vaccinated.

A not as large but still significant number of people (including myself) also got vaccinated, then got infected anyway. It's certainly not a simple choice between the two, taking the vaccine reduces your risk, it does not eliminate it.

Note, I am NOT saying that the vaccine isn't worth getting, I am very glad I got vaccinated, the infection sucked as it was with my immune system primed to fight it off. I don't think I would want to experience the counterfactual where I had been infected without vaccination.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits higher infectivity and immune resistance

#60

Post by jasonlaramburu »

NonContro wrote: post #38

Its more than half way through 2021 and Sweden has recorded its second-lowest annual deaths in the past 5 years: https://www.scb.se/en/finding-statistics/statistics-by-subje... The 1st lowest? 2019, the year before the pandemic. Suggesting a lot of mortality displacement from 2019 and 2021 into 2020.

What is your point? There are other countries that implemented strict restrictions and also saw very low death rates during the first and second waves (China, New Zealand, Australia).
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