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Why do we let sexist creeps pervade the software industry?

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Re: Why do we let sexist creeps pervade the software industry?

#11

Post by rimantas »

michaelchisari wrote: post #6
rimantas wrote: post #3

I am very curiuos, what will happen when even thinking about woman as sexually attractive will be a crime, let alone any chance of showing her that.

That's a slippery slope fallacy. I grew up around feminists, and I can guarantee you, that is not where equality leads.

Excuse me? I did not said a word about feminism nor about equality. Actually, knee-jerk reaction to my post without even trying to understand what I mean is pretty good indicator where we are headed, I am just curious how will that end.

Re: Why do we let sexist creeps pervade the software industry?

#12

Post by mootothemax »

cosgroveb wrote: post #8
michaelchisari wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a slippery slope fallacy. I grew up around feminists, and I can guarantee you, that is not where equality leads.

And before everyone starts bashing feminism by lumping them all in with Dworkin and the most extreme examples, please try getting to know one first. Their views are usually pretty reasonable.

Their views are usually pretty reasonable

You make it sound as if feminists are some kind of weird cult ;) But your basic point is true: just because a woman is a feminist doesn't mean that she thinks all penetrative sex is rape, such as Dworkin believed.

Re: Why do we let sexist creeps pervade the software industry?

#13

Post by rimantas »

rimantas wrote: post #11
michaelchisari wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a slippery slope fallacy. I grew up around feminists, and I can guarantee you, that is not where equality leads.

Excuse me? I did not said a word about feminism nor about equality. Actually, knee-jerk reaction to my post without even trying to understand what I mean is pretty good indicator where we are headed, I am just curious how will that end.

Now that's funny. So you think I did say something about feminism and equality? Citation, please.

Re: Why do we let sexist creeps pervade the software industry?

#14

Post by michaelchisari »

alex_c wrote: post #10
michaelchisari wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the discussion needs to happen. We don't get to sweep it under the rug.

Discussion, or circle jerk? I'm not arguing against the problem or trying to find solutions, but I saw nothing new or interesting in the linked post. "Same tired discussion" is right, every discussion on the topic here on HN plays out the exact same way and goes nowhere. It's the religion or politics equivalent of HN discussions.

I'm not arguing against the problem or trying to find solutions

But you are arguing against the discussion, no? Instead of using this article (as much as you may feel it lacks substance) as an opportunity to discuss the problem further, and propose solutions or suggestions... Instead, you label it a circle jerk.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but you haven't done much to change that.

Re: Why do we let sexist creeps pervade the software industry?

#15

Post by rimantas »

mootothemax wrote: post #12
cosgroveb wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And before everyone starts bashing feminism by lumping them all in with Dworkin and the most extreme examples, please try getting to know one first. Their views are usually pretty reasonable.

Their views are usually pretty reasonable You make it sound as if feminists are some kind of weird cult ;) But your basic point is true: just because a woman is a feminist doesn't mean that she thinks all penetrative sex is rape, such as Dworkin believed.

You know, we are near the situation when asking a girl out for a cup of coffee is perceived as an atempt to rape.

Re: Why do we let sexist creeps pervade the software industry?

#16

Post by hsmyers »

I understand that age (lower in this case) is not a barrier to talent and that we in general seek talent. That said, why do we allow misogynist behavior? If these wunderkind were our children (of any age) these sort of actions would be curbed as best as might be possible. Children of all ages push boundaries---when there are no boundaries, there are no limits to behavior.

Re: Why do we let sexist creeps pervade the software industry?

#17

Post by peterwwillis »

paulgb wrote: post #7
hack_edu wrote: post #2

Why do we let the same tired discussion about gender pervade HN once per week?

Because it remains unresolved and is one of the biggest social problems faced by the industry that 90% of HN readers are (or aspire to be) in.

How is this a problem not faced by any other industry in the world? I have never seen evidence that shows that IT industry people are any more sexist than people in any other field.

So someone goes to a conference and there was a slide with something inappropriate on it. That means one asshole was immature and unprofessional enough to publicly shoot himself in the foot. It doesn't mean there are aren't plenty of other sexist people in other careers though. They're just smart enough not to be sexist in the middle of their speech.

Re: Why do we let sexist creeps pervade the software industry?

#18

Post by michaelchisari »

peterwwillis wrote: post #17
paulgb wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it remains unresolved and is one of the biggest social problems faced by the industry that 90% of HN readers are (or aspire to be) in.

How is this a problem not faced by any other industry in the world? I have never seen evidence that shows that IT industry people are any more sexist than people in any other field. So someone goes to a conference and there was a slide with something inappropriate on it. That means one asshole was immature and unprofessional enough to publicly shoot himself in the foot. It doesn't mean there are aren't plenty of othe…

It doesn't mean there are aren't plenty of other sexist people in other careers though.

Sure, but we are in this industry, and pointing fingers at other industries does not get us off the hook.

Re: Why do we let sexist creeps pervade the software industry?

#19

Post by [deleted] »

hsmyers wrote: post #16

I understand that age (lower in this case) is not a barrier to talent and that we in general seek talent. That said, why do we allow misogynist behavior? If these wunderkind were our children (of any age) these sort of actions would be curbed as best as might be possible. Children of all ages push boundaries---when there are no boundaries, there are no limits to behavior.

[deleted]

Re: Why do we let sexist creeps pervade the software industry?

#20

Post by diolpah »

hsmyers wrote: post #16

I understand that age (lower in this case) is not a barrier to talent and that we in general seek talent. That said, why do we allow misogynist behavior? If these wunderkind were our children (of any age) these sort of actions would be curbed as best as might be possible. Children of all ages push boundaries---when there are no boundaries, there are no limits to behavior.

Um. Ok, except ageism is widely perceived to be a serious problem in the software development industry and culture as well.
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