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Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

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Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#91

Post by commandlinefan »

rvnx wrote: post #28
david927 wrote: post #3

Until there's a wealth floor -- until everyone is fed, sheltered and has access to education, there needs to be a wealth cap. We, as a collective humanity, should not allow anyone to have more than, say, $20 million, until the basic needs of others have been met.

Such weird logic; we should level down everyone. I don't live in a nice house, so everyone should be stuck like me in an old flat until everyone can get nice house. I'm not happy -> Everybody should be unhappy

> Such weird logic

Sadly becoming more and more popular.

Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#92

Post by sudhirj »

mdp2021 wrote: post #51
endisneigh wrote: post #49

I have no problem with billionaires personally. I do have a problem with people being billionaires if the "value" they've created is negative (obviously this is my opinion). Consider two billionaries: - One creates a cold nuclear fusion device the size of a 10" x 10" x 10" cube. You can plug anything to this device and it will power it, indefinitely. - Another gets little boys and girls addicted to some sort of super…

You seem to be implying that governments should be more attentive in taxing externalities.

Indirectly, yeah. Correctly calculating and taxing externalities might have prevented 'bad' billionaires from being made, but doesn't give us a plan on where to go from here.

Lots of gray area, though. Lots of arguments were made against Gates when Microsoft's value increased with anti-competitive practices, but it's hard to argue with what it's been spent on today.

Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#93

Post by Yoofie »

throwaway739 wrote: post #46
rvnx wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such weird logic; we should level down everyone. I don't live in a nice house, so everyone should be stuck like me in an old flat until everyone can get nice house. I'm not happy -> Everybody should be unhappy

So you need a $20 million house to feel like you live in a "nice house"? Can you explain to me why your logic is less "weird" than the one you are replying to?

The point is not the exact dollar figure that makes one happy. The problem is the "crabs in the bucket" mentality.

Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#94

Post by hobs »

andreilys wrote: post #75
david927 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need more than $20 million to be happy? Only having $20 million per person means you need to live in an "old flat?" Such weird logic: I need billions when others have no food.

You need more than $20million to build a reusable rocket company, a cold fusion reactor, or any number of other deep tech startups that require enormous investments which will likely never come from risk-averse governments.

Nuclear explosions and energy were initially developed because of military purposes. Rockets were developed for military purposes. I dont think the history of those things indicate we need rich individuals to make them.

Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#95

Post by IgorPartola »

jppope wrote: post #56
yayr wrote: post #45

This may be unpopular, but the hard thing in this discussion is to differentiate between consumption and investment. It does not help much to take wealth in terms of equity paper money away from people who know how to invest it efficiently and distribute it. On the other hand, there are minimum basic needs for consumption of food, health services, shelter, education etc. I agree that the system to finance those servi…

> "the hard thing in this discussion is to differentiate between consumption and investment" Indeed. Even harder is to acknowledge our government already has enough tax money, and further tax revenue will not be used prudently, in the best interest of our country.

Citation needed.

Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#96

Post by BiteCode_dev »

endisneigh wrote: post #49

I have no problem with billionaires personally. I do have a problem with people being billionaires if the "value" they've created is negative (obviously this is my opinion). Consider two billionaries: - One creates a cold nuclear fusion device the size of a 10" x 10" x 10" cube. You can plug anything to this device and it will power it, indefinitely. - Another gets little boys and girls addicted to some sort of super…

The problem with allowing billionaires is it leads to a huge concentration of power, which is a threat to equality, justice and democracy by nature.

Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#97

Post by LatteLazy »

Billionaires have power for two reasons:

* there is an enormous need for capital in modern economies

* everyone else refuses to actually keep any capital. Individuals max out their credit cards instead of saving. Voters demand tax cuts so governments are borrowers instead of lenders.

You can tax back the capital, but there are 2 issues doing so: as long as it's spent and not saved, it will rapidly end up back in billionaire's accounts AND in the mean time, the loss of investment when billionaires pull out capital to pay the tax will mean fewer jobs and higher prices.

These are the reasons no politician is willing to pull the trigger and go after the uber wealthy: you'll be celebrated for a week and then lynched when the economy falters.

You want to get out of this position? Require people to save and balance governmental budgets. But people don't want higher taxes, less services and lower spending power. At least they dislike it more than they like equality and opportunity.

If you really think billionaires have undue influence (and i do), cut your spending, invest and pay down debt and vote for higher taxes and lower state spending.

Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#98

Post by andreilys »

david927 wrote: post #54
simonh wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that is not really to do with equality, it's to do with who runs companies and where investment in the economy comes from, and how everyone's basic needs are met. This would take the ownership of huge swathes of the companies in the world out of the hands of the people who created them and operate them and into the hands of random executives with little or no track record. You're not going to meet an…

Yes, that's a problem. But it's not as big a problem as the current economic divide. The very wealthiest have superfluous amounts of money -- enough to pay to find loopholes so that they pay no taxes. If there was an island with 100 people and one person had almost all of the coconuts and others were starving, no one will care about details for very long. Fix it now because people won't ask nicely for long.

Right so instead we should take one of those 100 people and give them the power of violence to take all the coconuts and distribute as they see fit.

Likely to their friends and family.

So we end up with the same scenario again, inequality persists only this time it’s because of a centralized authority figure that now has a monopoly on violence.

Re: Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires

#99

Post by simonh »

david927 wrote: post #54
simonh wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that is not really to do with equality, it's to do with who runs companies and where investment in the economy comes from, and how everyone's basic needs are met. This would take the ownership of huge swathes of the companies in the world out of the hands of the people who created them and operate them and into the hands of random executives with little or no track record. You're not going to meet an…

Yes, that's a problem. But it's not as big a problem as the current economic divide. The very wealthiest have superfluous amounts of money -- enough to pay to find loopholes so that they pay no taxes. If there was an island with 100 people and one person had almost all of the coconuts and others were starving, no one will care about details for very long. Fix it now because people won't ask nicely for long.

Suppose that's the only person who knows how to grow and harvest coconuts, and those coconuts are the seeds for next year. That's what real economies look like, not the simplistic naivety of so many Marxists who think that everyone is equally good at managing resources, and spreading out resources equally is just as good as investing them strategically. There are no simple answers to questions like this.
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