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Launch HN: Iona Mind (YC S21) – App-based cognitive behavioural therapy

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Launch HN: Iona Mind (YC S21) – App-based cognitive behavioural therapy

#1
Hi HN, we’re Iona Mind. We provide app-based mental health support, with a focus on Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT).

Mental healthcare is difficult for many people to access, whether because of cost, stigma or waiting times. According to a recent pre-covid study in England [1] 18% of people are experiencing a mental health issue, yet only 5% actually access help through an employer’s assistance plan (if one even exists) [2] . The majority suffer in silence. In addition to the human cost, there are significant economic costs. In the U.S., mental health issues cost employers thousands of dollars per employee per year in medical costs and lost productivity [3].

At our previous company, we lost a colleague to suicide. Since then we’ve been on a mission to bring evidence-based mental healthcare to as many people as possible. We were surprised to find that Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is backed by over 30 years of research, and over 250 meta-analyses [4], yet remains difficult for people to access. CBT has been shown to be effective for a wide range of mental health conditions, even when administered digitally [5] or in books (so called bibliotherapy) [6]. While we do not believe that self or app administered CBT can replace the human touch, it does provide a convenient, affordable, always accessible and stigma-free way for many users to access support, when they may not have been able or ready to seek it in person. In the UK, the NHS presents a progressive “stepped model” of mental healthcare, depending upon severity from step 1 to step 4. We see apps playing a part in step 1, step 1a and possibly step 2 of this model [7].

While there are a number of CBT apps available, we wanted to base ours around Low-Intensity Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, a relatively new variant which has been used extensively in England to treat people with mild to moderate conditions at scale. In low-intensity CBT, the patient more or less treats themselves by doing exercises, and the therapist supports the process. This approach to CBT is especially suited to delivery through a digital form. Our clinical director, Professor Paul Farrand, was the architect of using Low-Intensity Cognitive Behavioural therapy at scale in the UK’s National Health Service (NHS), and the editor of one of the first international textbooks on the subject [8].

Our app presents the user with a chatbot which guides them through CBT techniques and exercises. We went for a chat-style UI to make the software more engaging—it’s a challenge to make an app of this kind be more than just a “content board”. Our chatbot engine is graph-based. At some nodes in the graph, classifiers applied to the user’s free text entry determine the path through this graph, along with the user’s state and past inputs. We want the paths within the app to be predictable and ensure that the chatbot doesn’t do anything unexpected. We’d seen more freeform generative seq2seq style chatbots produce potentially dangerous output at times in other apps and wanted to avoid this. Also, CBT has been shown to often work better when “therapist drift” is minimized—this is where the therapist drifts away from the prescribed structure of the exercises in CBT [9]. A graph-based conversation is a good way to keep things on track.

We offer the app as an employee wellness benefit to organizations. Since only 5% of employees tend to use the Employee Assistance Programme (EAP) at their employer, the app offers a way to support the “missing middle” for whom mindfulness/meditation apps are not sufficient, but who aren’t ready to access their employer’s EAP. We offer use of the app completely anonymously if the user wishes. It’s in the Apple App Store at https://apps.apple.com/app/iona-anxiety-mood-support/id14913... and Google Play at https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.iona.menta....

We’d be really interested to hear from the community about any ideas or experiences you've had when it comes to delivering mental health support digitally. We appreciate this is a sensitive topic so if you’d rather email us we’d love to hear from you at hello@ionamind.com

[1] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

[2] https://www.eapa.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/UK-EAPA-R...

[3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1924724/ indicates major depressive disorder alone costs $4426 per ill worker per annum

[4] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3584580/

[5] There are a wealth of papers on so-called “iCBT” or internet delivered Cognitive Behaviour Therapy, covering both fully digital and human-in-the-loop variations. The approach dates back to the days when iCBT was actually just static content delivered on CD-ROM. I attach a couple below https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5421393/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23419552/

[6] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5788928/

[7] http://www.swscn.org.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/non-gu...

[8] https://us.sagepub.com/en-us/nam/low-intensity-cbt-skills-an...

[9] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26752326/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19036354/ https://www.vgct.nl/stream/vr-keynote-9.15-waller.pdf

Re: Launch HN: Iona Mind (YC S21) – App-based cognitive behavioural therapy

#2
- Apple link is dead FYI

- I can’t imagine a harder sell than an app improving mental health. From own experiences, simply stepping away / hiking / going without a phone for a couple days is a huge empowering reset.

Will check out and wish you best of luck

Re: Launch HN: Iona Mind (YC S21) – App-based cognitive behavioural therapy

#3
Congrats on the launch!

Is a chatbot the best way to accomplish this? I used the app for 5 minutes and barely got past the onboarding. Yes maybe it feels more personalised but it's much slower to get to the point.

Like WORMS_EAT_WORMS mentioned, stepping away from screens I've found is much better for improving mental health, which also makes me question the premise of apps like Headspace.

Would be great to hear your perspective on these points.

Best of luck!

Re: Launch HN: Iona Mind (YC S21) – App-based cognitive behavioural therapy

#4
Congratulations! Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and related treatment areas can be excellent ways to help people help themselves.

As a heads up, what I've seen is some tech folks can be greatly encouraged to try mind-improvement apps; it turns out one phrase works wonders: "you can hack your own mind".

Re: Launch HN: Iona Mind (YC S21) – App-based cognitive behavioural therapy

#5

- Apple link is dead FYI - I can’t imagine a harder sell than an app improving mental health. From own experiences, simply stepping away / hiking / going without a phone for a couple days is a huge empowering reset. Will check out and wish you best of luck

Thanks for the heads up on the link! We'll update in the original post, but you can also try https://apps.apple.com/app/iona-anxiety-mood-support/id14913... which seems to be working from our region

I would certainly agree on the stepping away and hiking approach. In CBT Jargon, doing an activity that you would normally enjoy when you're feeling low is often called "Behavioural Activation" or BA, and it's definitely a valuable self-help tool.

Thanks for checking out the app, and any comments and thoughts on our product are always gratefully received.

Re: Launch HN: Iona Mind (YC S21) – App-based cognitive behavioural therapy

#6

Congrats on the launch! Is a chatbot the best way to accomplish this? I used the app for 5 minutes and barely got past the onboarding. Yes maybe it feels more personalised but it's much slower to get to the point. Like WORMS_EAT_WORMS mentioned, stepping away from screens I've found is much better for improving mental health, which also makes me question the premise of apps like Headspace. Would be great to hear your…

Thanks for your interest and for checking out the app. We've tried various approaches and I think it's one of the more engaging methods of delivering CBT that we've trialled to date, but we're certainly not married to it and we're always thinking of ways that we could deliver CBT in a more engaging manner. The main issue we find, is that when you are walking people through specific modules or exercises you want to keep them engaged and not just throw a load of content at them either as a block of text or a video which they will probably skip.

I'd certainly agree on the idea of unplugging and stepping away, and as I also mentioned to WORMS_EAT_WORMS, this is a form of "Behavioural Activation" which has good grounding as a highly effective self-help skill for your toolbox. I would say apps can be effective for learning and practicing other "tools" such as "cognitive restructuring" (thinking about thoughts and trying to reframe them in an objective manner), or gratitude journaling and review, both of which are used in the practice of CBT.

Re: Launch HN: Iona Mind (YC S21) – App-based cognitive behavioural therapy

#7
post #4

Congratulations! Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and related treatment areas can be excellent ways to help people help themselves. As a heads up, what I've seen is some tech folks can be greatly encouraged to try mind-improvement apps; it turns out one phrase works wonders: "you can hack your own mind".

Thanks for your comment jph, "you can hack your own mind" is a really great way to frame it!

Re: Launch HN: Iona Mind (YC S21) – App-based cognitive behavioural therapy

#8
Are you FDA approved? You’re distributing a medical product and making claims that 86% of people feel less stress, depression or anxiety. In the US at least, I believe you either need FDA approval, or a disclaimer that you’re not approved.

Re: Launch HN: Iona Mind (YC S21) – App-based cognitive behavioural therapy

#9

- Apple link is dead FYI - I can’t imagine a harder sell than an app improving mental health. From own experiences, simply stepping away / hiking / going without a phone for a couple days is a huge empowering reset. Will check out and wish you best of luck

I have doubts about their medical claims, but I have been helped by traditional, video-based CBT delivered over an app. While exercise is one component of improving mental health, CBT goes far beyond and is way more helpful.

Re: Launch HN: Iona Mind (YC S21) – App-based cognitive behavioural therapy

#10

Are you FDA approved? You’re distributing a medical product and making claims that 86% of people feel less stress, depression or anxiety. In the US at least, I believe you either need FDA approval, or a disclaimer that you’re not approved.

It's an excellent point and why we're very careful with the claims we make. The claim I think you are referring to is "86% of users report feeling better after their first session with Iona Mind" , which is based upon feedback the users give within the app, but does not relate to any specific measurements relating to any conditions within the DSM-5 which is the standard manual which defines mental health disorders within the United States. We are indeed not a medical device, and we do make it clear to users during sign up that Iona Mind is a self help tool.

If we were making that claim that we treat specific diseases such as Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) or Generalised Anxiety Disorder (GAD) then you are correct in assuming that would require FDA approval as a medical device, although for the duration of the covid-19 pandemic the FDA published the following guidance on low-risk self help and general wellness apps: https://www.fda.gov/media/136939/download

which states: "... Given these public health benefits, for the duration of the COVID-19 public health emergency, FDA does not intend to object to the distribution and use of computerized behavioral therapy devices and other digital health therapeutic devices for psychiatric disorders, which are described in Section III.A, without compliance with the following regulatory requirements, as applicable, where such devices do not create an undue risk in light of the public health emergency:..."

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