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Illustrated: Apple's Fear of Android

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Re: Illustrated: Apple's Fear of Android

#61

Post by trezor »

white_devil wrote: post #59
trezor wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in software development. Almost everyone in my department has Android-phones bar a few self-confessed iAddicts (and one daring Windows phone 7 beta-tester). Despite its huge commercial success, the iPhone is among my peers considered a rather lulzy thing and a the undisputed weakest and least sophisticated of all the mobile platforms when measured on its own merits. Not saying this is absolute truth either, bu…

the undisputed weakest and least sophisticated of all the mobile platforms when measured on its own merits. Oh my fucking God, please . I wasn't sure before, but you just outed yourself as a huge Google -fanboy. Yeah what's Apple's platform got going for it? -It just changed the whole industry and showed How It's Done. It's also regarded as technically very solid, and pleasant to develop for.

It just changed the whole industry and showed How It's Done.

I may not like your tone, but if nothing else you are correct about this point. Apple was clearly the company who made everyone else understand that delivering a good smartphone involved good software in addition to hardware and that good hardware alone was worthless. For this they deserve recognition.

That being said: They created a platform, a very simple and limited platform, which worked adequately for people of limited needs. And for an initial release it was absolutely stunning.

That said, this does in no way translate into a platform which ages and evolves well. My complaints are mostly in this department and this is where I think Android is (and will remain) miles ahead of iOS.

Re: Illustrated: Apple's Fear of Android

#62

Post by AndrewDucker »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #53
AndrewDucker wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple pride themselves on making the iPhone simple, and not fragmented. I can't see how they can do that and still release the iPhones in different styles, unless we're talking nothing more than different covers. The massive market growth in smartphones is being caused by the smartphone becoming cheaper - if they want more of the market then they have to enter that area.

They release different styles of Macs and iPods, why is the iPhone the one product of theirs that has no differentiation?

Very good question. For some reason having differentiation in the smartphone space is known as "Fragmentation" and bad.

Personally, I'd be very happy with Apple bringing out a wider mix of phones, but they seem dead against it.

Edit: Just seen your comment at the bottom of the page - I totally agree - Apple's lack of different options is probably going to go badly for them in the long run.

Re: Illustrated: Apple's Fear of Android

#63

Post by arethuza »

hypotguy wrote: post #47
arethuza wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best Android devices may be as good or even better than the best iPhones but the worst Android devices are much worse than any Apple device has ever been. I say this as the not-very-proud owner of a Samsung Galaxy Europa in addition to my iPhone and iPad.

The Samsung Galaxy Europa is cheapest entry level Android phone I've seen - where I'm from the i5500 can be picked up for about €70-100. I have one and it cost 1/5 that of an iPhone and is a pretty competent Android phone. For the price it's great value in my opinion and as far as I'm aware Apple makes nothing in that price range so I can't see how you can make any sort of comparison.

YMMV Note that I am not comparing it directly to my iPhone but to the previous Samsung non-smart phone I had which I lost, which was just a basic phone. I'd honestly rather have a basic non-Android phone than the Galaxy Europa.

Re: Illustrated: Apple's Fear of Android

#64

Post by trotsky »

AllenKids wrote: post #28
MatthewPhillips wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except Apple doesn't seem to care about achieving huge market share for the iPhone. They care about money, and by delaying the iPhone 5 they've managed to make even more money than usual. It must be habit that we go for the market share argument so often. A corporation's responsibility to its shareholders isn't to spread its logo across the land like a religion, but to return value (real dollars, not imaginary mark…

Market is not fixed in place, when one factor changes, other numbers vary accordingly. For example 30% of a total 100M units sold is roughly the same of 19% of a total 150M units sold. IF APU stay the same, it makes no difference financial wise to Apple. But to achieve 30% of 150M units sold, Apple may have to branch out another line of more affordable phones, it may have to give more control to the carriers, it may…

Yet reports seem to indicate Apple is planning on rolling out a "budget" price point phone [1], so they probably are worried about market share after all.

Apple is on a long term digital media dominance play. They want to be the one stop locked in shop for many people's music, software, video and books. Sure they'll continue to be interested in making good money on their hardware but their evolving iOS platform strategies clearly point to what they're looking forward to. And in that version of the world where content sales is king, market share means a whole lot.

http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/10/iphone-nano/

Re: Illustrated: Apple's Fear of Android

#65

Post by saturdaysaint »

Flamebait.

Jobs played up the IP that went into the iPhone at its launch and (paraphrasing from memory) vowed to defend it vigorously at the time, well before a single Droid or Galaxy S or iPhone shipped. I'll dig through the WWDC transcript if someone forces me ;). They knew that they'd be copied, presumably by low-cost imitators as their products have always been imitated, and were always prepared to use IP law to defend their advantage.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with this strategy, but Apple saw these market pressures coming a long time ago.

Re: Illustrated: Apple's Fear of Android

#66

Post by bad_user »

jokermatt999 wrote: post #57
nextparadigms wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple cares a lot about market share. Why do you think they keep bragging with statistics every chance they get? Being a leader in market share is very important for developers and it's important for customers, too. Also more market share means more sales - so more money and profit. Why wouldn't they want that? You don't think they cared about their market share with iPods, or their market share in the tablet market?…

I'm an Android fan, but marketshare between Android and iPhone doesn't tell the whole story, at least for developers. I haven't seen numbers on it in a while, but iOS is much better for devs in terms of making money. iOS users buy more apps, and if you're developing to make money, that's pretty good deciding factor. Of course, may not want to develop for Apple for other reasons (store policies, not wanting to get ran…

     iOS users buy more apps
I own both an iPhone and an Android.

I haven't bought any Android apps because Android apps are crap and I won't pay money for shitty weekend hacks.

     if you're developing to make money, that's pretty 
     good deciding factor
That's a pretty weak argument -- do the math, most apps on iTunes aren't even making up for sunken costs.

Quite the contrary I would say, since the Android Marketplace is filled with crappy apps, you can create value quite easily.

Re: Illustrated: Apple's Fear of Android

#67

Post by mrcharles »

saturdaysaint wrote: post #65

Flamebait. Jobs played up the IP that went into the iPhone at its launch and (paraphrasing from memory) vowed to defend it vigorously at the time, well before a single Droid or Galaxy S or iPhone shipped. I'll dig through the WWDC transcript if someone forces me ;). They knew that they'd be copied, presumably by low-cost imitators as their products have always been imitated, and were always prepared to use IP law to…

I recall that as well, but I think this article is still valid, because it speaks to Apple's vigor in enforcing them, as much as anything. I'm not going to say Apple is desperate yet, but I think that Apple foresees that desperation if they don't very actively pursue anything and everything.

Re: Illustrated: Apple's Fear of Android

#68

Post by jff »

pooriaazimi wrote: post #46
MatthewPhillips wrote: post #14

What I don't get is why they aren't offering choices of different handsets. They offer 4 different versions of the iPod and 1 version of the iPhone. There should be at least 3 iPhones - the standard version, one with a 4.3 or 4.5 inch screen, and one with a slide out keyboard.

That is called fragmentation. It's hard for devs to optimize their apps to look good on different resolutions or aspect ratios. Even making your app to look & work "well" on both portrait and landscape modes is hard (by well I mean pretty, slick and sound).

It's somehow worked out for the incredibly fragmented Android environment. Their method of creating images that specify which parts of themselves can be safely stretched (NinePatch, http://developer.android.com/reference/android/graphics/Nine...) is a pretty neat technical aid for that situation.

Re: Illustrated: Apple's Fear of Android

#69

Post by saddino »

trezor wrote: post #38
berberich wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android the platform might be nothing like iOS, but Ir does appear that Samsung went out of its way to make their phones look like iPhones[1]. [1]: http://thisismynext.com/2011/04/19/apple-sues-samsung-analys...

To be fair, they look like any other smartphone which is black and has a touchscreen. Apple cannot be granted a patent on being black. Not even black with rounded corners. That's not how the world works. And if we dig deeper, behind the PR-piece which Apple seemingly is winning (here on HN at least), lets compare the iPhone to Samsung F700, introduced in 2007, before the iPhone. http://phandroid.com/2011/04/20/did-ap…

Actually, that's exactly how the world works.

Design patents and trade dress protection can indeed protect the look of a product, even a color from use by competitors, e.g. Tiffany's defends its "robin's egg blue" color used to sell jewelry: http://www.scribd.com/doc/102788/tiffany-v-ebay-III

Re: Illustrated: Apple's Fear of Android

#70

Post by Loic »

mrcharles wrote: post #67
saturdaysaint wrote: post #65

Flamebait. Jobs played up the IP that went into the iPhone at its launch and (paraphrasing from memory) vowed to defend it vigorously at the time, well before a single Droid or Galaxy S or iPhone shipped. I'll dig through the WWDC transcript if someone forces me ;). They knew that they'd be copied, presumably by low-cost imitators as their products have always been imitated, and were always prepared to use IP law to…

I recall that as well, but I think this article is still valid, because it speaks to Apple's vigor in enforcing them, as much as anything. I'm not going to say Apple is desperate yet, but I think that Apple foresees that desperation if they don't very actively pursue anything and everything.

For once I totally agree. You must also add, that the vast majority of people are price sensitive and do not really care if they use an Apple, Samsung or HTC device. A lot of people around me bought the iPod (not iPad) because they were the cheapest and nice looking at the same time.

Look around you at people having a decent normal job, kids, a house to repay, etc. At the end of the month, not a lot of money left for the high end Apple stuff. These are not even the majority of the people.

In Europe, basically you have 30% of the people paying no taxes because no money, 30% with money but in fact nearly nothing left at the end of the month and 30% with extra (here I am generous).

The iPhone is selling good in Europe only because it is subsidized by the mobile operators.

So, if you continue following this line, this means that at least in Europe, Apple will simply not be able to grow past the 30% mark if not subsidized by the operators.

Then you hit the last problem, the iPad is seen as a "big" iPhone by people. They use it in addition to a normal computer and buy it with a contract.

Now you have Apple, depending for 60% of their income on hardware which most of the time requires the help of the mobile operators to be sold.

This is not an easy position to be in. I do not own any Apple device, but I thank them for what they do, because they drive the general quality of the smart phones up.

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