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Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

bitcoinmagazine.com

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Re: Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

#41

Post by uniqueid »

kortilla wrote: post #23
arcticbull wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I like the idea of free health care and education, the idea that a brain surgeon gets paid same as a street cleaner is absurd. I personally support wealth and income inequality when coupled with social mobility (and a high standard of living at the low end). With that in mind, why do you think it's absurd for both a street cleaner and a brain surgeon to enjoy a middle class lifestyle? I think we both agree ne…

> Canada has much lower wealth and income inequality - and it's because there's a much tighter band of compensation. I can’t fathom pointing to a market that cannot compete globally (Canada’s software engineering job market) and somehow thinking it’s impressive. Knocking everyone down to achieve equality is not desirable. I’m more interested in approaches that provide safety nets and mobility upward. Not ones that el…

  Knocking everyone down to achieve equality is not desirable.
Not desirable in terms of average income, just desirable for the majority of citizens.

Re: Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

#42

Post by tdeck »

> In tragic irony, unskilled workers were often far better off financially than highly-educated ones, and many of the latter dropped out of their careers to clean tables or pick people up from the airport to get access to the CUC economy. The dual currency system institutionalized inequality, creating clear classes of haves and have nots. For many people like Lucia, this as much as anything else showed that the revolution was a sham.

The second part of this paragraph feels like a really weird framing of the first part. As far as I can tell:

- workers in what the author considers less-skilled jobs are making more than those in higher skilled jobs

- some workers are quitting to take up these "unskilled" jobs, and it appears they're fully able to do so

On the one hand, it seems the incentives aren't great for people to work in certain professions. On the other, it's kind of hard to argue that there's a fundamental class struggle going on here when a doctor can join the "privileged" class by simply quitting their job and wiping tables. Clearly there's more going on here than somebody is letting on. It would make more sense for people affiliated with the government to have a privileged position (perhaps by being able to access foreign currency more directly).

Re: Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

#43

Post by rcMgD2BwE72F »

dougSF70 wrote: post #9

Bitcoin could be the undoing of the regime. It will allow Cubans to accumulate wealth that the regime cannot seize or convert into another worthless Cuban domestic currency. While I like the idea of free health care and education, the idea that a brain surgeon gets paid same as a street cleaner is absurd. Cuba is a series of failed experiments.

so you think people want to become brain surgeon for the money?

Re: Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

#45

Post by arcticbull »

renewiltord wrote: post #39
arcticbull wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I like the idea of free health care and education, the idea that a brain surgeon gets paid same as a street cleaner is absurd. I personally support wealth and income inequality when coupled with social mobility (and a high standard of living at the low end). With that in mind, why do you think it's absurd for both a street cleaner and a brain surgeon to enjoy a middle class lifestyle? I think we both agree ne…

It is absurd because societies which do not restrict pay like that will outcompete societies that do restrict pay like that. Your brain surgeons will leave and you will be left with the other guy. Which may be fine for you but many Americans do not want that and consequently find things that would bring that about absurd.

Canada has excellent brain surgeons. The reality is immigration isn't as simple as picking up and wandering across a border. There's nativism, protectionism and of course the ties that keep you bound to your local community. Friends, family, shops, restaurants, a house. If I told you that I would pay you 30% more to move to Kansas, would you? Why, and why not?

Further, why isn't every brain surgeon in America located in NY, SF and LA?

Broadly, America has a pretty bad healthcare system, ranked somewhere in the mid-20s globally. The vast majority of the healthcare systems ranked higher than America are socialized - somewhere between single payer and two tier. With capped pay. Why aren't all those doctors in America?

Why isn't every software engineer in the Bay Area currently located in Seattle and Texas? It's really not that simple.

Re: Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

#46

Post by altacc »

Headline is hyperbolic as the article itself states crypto usage in Cuba is on par with other countries, about 2.5%. There may be some variance in use cases and good future potential in Cuba but it's certainly not yet an active "revolution". There are certainly good use cases (and existing solutions) across the world for alternative banking systems, especially for international remittances.

The problem with positing Bitcoin as the solution is something that this article highlights as the problem with the Cuba's currencies - both Bitcoin and Cuba fiat are incredibly unstable. People living on tight margins in poor economies cannot afford to gamble with their daily cashflow. Every currency fluctuation has a direct effect on their daily living standards, including what they will be able to afford to eat. In the past few months we've seen massive drops in the value of Bitcoin, such as 25% over 10 days and 40% over 14 days. These are the kind of currency devaluations that poor people on very low incomes cannot afford.

The article would have been better if it had talked about cryptocurrency in general, not specifically the one used for financial speculation by millionaires (speculation in which Bitcoin Magazine plays a part in and it's founders & CEO financially benefit from).

Centralized financial networks and stable coins (if we insist on using a blockchain) are more likely to be the answer for these use cases any maybe the hype around Bitcoin helps that but as-is, it's not a good solution for those who would actually benefit from alternative financial networks.

Re: Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

#47

Post by readthenotes1 »

arcticbull wrote: post #29
riffraff wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some common arguments for the wealth inequality: The surgeon will have spent many years studying while the street cleaner can just get started tomorrow. The surgeon has responsibilities the cleaner does not. Finally, given equal pay, people may not want to do unpleasant jobs: I'd rather be a poet than a trash collector. But on the other hand it's somewhat hard to justify someone earning many orders of magnitude more…

> The surgeon will have spent many years studying while the street cleaner can just get started tomorrow. Indeed but if it is paid for by the government then what difference does it make? I would rather work my ass off as a SWE than collect garbage even if I'm getting paid the same amount, however that's just me. I suspect it's you too, if you're honest with yourself. As as for poetry, this is my argument for UBI. Go…

"As as for poetry, this is my argument for UBI. Go for it, IMO, poetry has societal value."

I am a poet on the dole. I tell you, it is good for the soul. I forego prosody for perspicacity, smoke your weed and blow profundity. You could be me if you dared. Give poet your tax money, you declared.

Re: Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

#49

Post by arcticbull »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #47
arcticbull wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The surgeon will have spent many years studying while the street cleaner can just get started tomorrow. Indeed but if it is paid for by the government then what difference does it make? I would rather work my ass off as a SWE than collect garbage even if I'm getting paid the same amount, however that's just me. I suspect it's you too, if you're honest with yourself. As as for poetry, this is my argument for UBI. Go…

"As as for poetry, this is my argument for UBI. Go for it, IMO, poetry has societal value." I am a poet on the dole. I tell you, it is good for the soul. I forego prosody for perspicacity, smoke your weed and blow profundity. You could be me if you dared. Give poet your tax money, you declared.

Based on that poem alone, I consider my tax dollars well spent. Cheers.

Re: Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

#50

Post by renewiltord »

arcticbull wrote: post #45
renewiltord wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absurd because societies which do not restrict pay like that will outcompete societies that do restrict pay like that. Your brain surgeons will leave and you will be left with the other guy. Which may be fine for you but many Americans do not want that and consequently find things that would bring that about absurd.

Canada has excellent brain surgeons. The reality is immigration isn't as simple as picking up and wandering across a border. There's nativism, protectionism and of course the ties that keep you bound to your local community. Friends, family, shops, restaurants, a house. If I told you that I would pay you 30% more to move to Kansas, would you? Why, and why not? Further, why isn't every brain surgeon in America located…

My family has medical professionals in Canada. I can assure you your surgeons aren’t being paid anywhere near your rubbish disposal people. If they are, then my family is probably all at the 99th percentile of surgeons and at the 99th percentile of family doctors.

So naturally I am unsurprised that Canadian neurosurgeons are good. If they’re anything like other surgical specialties they’re probably also making bank. Or maybe they’re not and my extended family is a bunch of superhumans.

Berkeley alone has as many Nobel Prize winners as Canada entire. That’s the kind of society we build here. Winners. And sometimes there’s a price we will pay for that (we’ll have some losers).

EDIT: Pay your doctors what you pay your street cleaners and you’ll see what they do. They won’t stay in Canada for that.

Oh and sorry about the edit style responses. I have hit my comment rate limit.

I guess my simple response to the rest is “show me the code”. No one does this thing except authoritarian regimes limiting emigration. If it is so good, show us.

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