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Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

bitcoinmagazine.com

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Re: Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

#21

Post by tenuousemphasis »

arcticbull wrote: post #10
dougSF70 wrote: post #9

Bitcoin could be the undoing of the regime. It will allow Cubans to accumulate wealth that the regime cannot seize or convert into another worthless Cuban domestic currency. While I like the idea of free health care and education, the idea that a brain surgeon gets paid same as a street cleaner is absurd. Cuba is a series of failed experiments.

> While I like the idea of free health care and education, the idea that a brain surgeon gets paid same as a street cleaner is absurd. I personally support wealth and income inequality when coupled with social mobility (and a high standard of living at the low end). With that in mind, why do you think it's absurd for both a street cleaner and a brain surgeon to enjoy a middle class lifestyle? I think we both agree ne…

It's absurd because one profession takes a lot more time, skill, and dedication to become proficient than the other.

Re: Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

#22

Post by arcticbull »

wesleywt wrote: post #19
arcticbull wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A volatile currency with direct transaction fees ranging from $0.05-60 [edited per FreeRadical - thanks!] and indirect transaction fees of roughly $90 (socialized block reward). Whose value dropped 50% in a month then went up 50% in a month (which of course still leaves it 25% below its near-term highs). I don't think even the Cuban Peso performs like that. Think about both of those in terms of the average salary of…

Bitcoin was a saviour for many ordingary folk in Venezuela during the hyperinflation crisis. It worked as intended. https://www.dw.com/en/venezuelans-try-to-beat-hyperinflation... Why would a country embargoed by the USA use USD?

Your link doesn't mean much, as after all 66% of all transactions in Venezuela are USD denominated now per my link. The people of Venezuela had the choice: BTC or USD. They spoke, and they said USD.

Likely only the wealthy laundering money, probably connected to the Maduro government are playing BTC. Only certain entities and individuals connected to the Maduro government are under sanctions, not everyone in Venezuela - which is why USD remittances are possible in the first place. Folks are using USD because Bitcoin is wildly inappropriate for use as a currency.

[edit] Consider that at the time that article was written the average BTC transaction fee with multiple months minimum wage for the average Venezeulan.

Re: Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

#23

Post by kortilla »

arcticbull wrote: post #10
dougSF70 wrote: post #9

Bitcoin could be the undoing of the regime. It will allow Cubans to accumulate wealth that the regime cannot seize or convert into another worthless Cuban domestic currency. While I like the idea of free health care and education, the idea that a brain surgeon gets paid same as a street cleaner is absurd. Cuba is a series of failed experiments.

> While I like the idea of free health care and education, the idea that a brain surgeon gets paid same as a street cleaner is absurd. I personally support wealth and income inequality when coupled with social mobility (and a high standard of living at the low end). With that in mind, why do you think it's absurd for both a street cleaner and a brain surgeon to enjoy a middle class lifestyle? I think we both agree ne…

> Canada has much lower wealth and income inequality - and it's because there's a much tighter band of compensation.

I can’t fathom pointing to a market that cannot compete globally (Canada’s software engineering job market) and somehow thinking it’s impressive. Knocking everyone down to achieve equality is not desirable.

I’m more interested in approaches that provide safety nets and mobility upward. Not ones that eliminate the paths upward.

Re: Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

#24

Post by notsureaboutpg »

dougSF70 wrote: post #9

Bitcoin could be the undoing of the regime. It will allow Cubans to accumulate wealth that the regime cannot seize or convert into another worthless Cuban domestic currency. While I like the idea of free health care and education, the idea that a brain surgeon gets paid same as a street cleaner is absurd. Cuba is a series of failed experiments.

I think the 21st century has shown that this "The End of History" thinking where liberal democracies are the ultimate final form of all nations to be false.

Brain drain (the noveau riche of Cuba's Bitcoin scene will of course leave to other countries) leads to more security for charismatic leaders who can exercise more authority with less resistance than previously possible. We've seen it in India, Pakistan, Turkey, Hungary, Poland, Russia, Brazil, etc.

Why would this trend not continue in Cuba?

Re: Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

#26

Post by [deleted] »

tenuousemphasis wrote: post #17
arcticbull wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A volatile currency with direct transaction fees ranging from $0.05-60 [edited per FreeRadical - thanks!] and indirect transaction fees of roughly $90 (socialized block reward). Whose value dropped 50% in a month then went up 50% in a month (which of course still leaves it 25% below its near-term highs). I don't think even the Cuban Peso performs like that. Think about both of those in terms of the average salary of…

Indirect transaction fees are a really pointless statistic.

[deleted]

Re: Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

#27

Post by riffraff »

arcticbull wrote: post #10
dougSF70 wrote: post #9

Bitcoin could be the undoing of the regime. It will allow Cubans to accumulate wealth that the regime cannot seize or convert into another worthless Cuban domestic currency. While I like the idea of free health care and education, the idea that a brain surgeon gets paid same as a street cleaner is absurd. Cuba is a series of failed experiments.

> While I like the idea of free health care and education, the idea that a brain surgeon gets paid same as a street cleaner is absurd. I personally support wealth and income inequality when coupled with social mobility (and a high standard of living at the low end). With that in mind, why do you think it's absurd for both a street cleaner and a brain surgeon to enjoy a middle class lifestyle? I think we both agree ne…

Some common arguments for the wealth inequality:

The surgeon will have spent many years studying while the street cleaner can just get started tomorrow.

The surgeon has responsibilities the cleaner does not.

Finally, given equal pay, people may not want to do unpleasant jobs: I'd rather be a poet than a trash collector.

But on the other hand it's somewhat hard to justify someone earning many orders of magnitude more than others.

Re: Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

#28

Post by arcticbull »

kortilla wrote: post #23
arcticbull wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I like the idea of free health care and education, the idea that a brain surgeon gets paid same as a street cleaner is absurd. I personally support wealth and income inequality when coupled with social mobility (and a high standard of living at the low end). With that in mind, why do you think it's absurd for both a street cleaner and a brain surgeon to enjoy a middle class lifestyle? I think we both agree ne…

> Canada has much lower wealth and income inequality - and it's because there's a much tighter band of compensation. I can’t fathom pointing to a market that cannot compete globally (Canada’s software engineering job market) and somehow thinking it’s impressive. Knocking everyone down to achieve equality is not desirable. I’m more interested in approaches that provide safety nets and mobility upward. Not ones that el…

> I’m more interested in approaches that provide safety nets and mobility upward. Not ones that eliminate the paths upward.

To be clear this is my opinion also. I'm not saying Canada's engineering market is impressive, just that this is the context in which this conversation comes up on HN. My question was posed as a platonic thought exercise.

Re: Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

#29

Post by arcticbull »

riffraff wrote: post #27
arcticbull wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I like the idea of free health care and education, the idea that a brain surgeon gets paid same as a street cleaner is absurd. I personally support wealth and income inequality when coupled with social mobility (and a high standard of living at the low end). With that in mind, why do you think it's absurd for both a street cleaner and a brain surgeon to enjoy a middle class lifestyle? I think we both agree ne…

Some common arguments for the wealth inequality: The surgeon will have spent many years studying while the street cleaner can just get started tomorrow. The surgeon has responsibilities the cleaner does not. Finally, given equal pay, people may not want to do unpleasant jobs: I'd rather be a poet than a trash collector. But on the other hand it's somewhat hard to justify someone earning many orders of magnitude more…

> The surgeon will have spent many years studying while the street cleaner can just get started tomorrow.

Indeed but if it is paid for by the government then what difference does it make? I would rather work my ass off as a SWE than collect garbage even if I'm getting paid the same amount, however that's just me. I suspect it's you too, if you're honest with yourself.

As as for poetry, this is my argument for UBI. Go for it, IMO, poetry has societal value.

> The surgeon has responsibilities the cleaner does not.

[edit] This is true, and also a surgeon generates value through the people they save. I can get behind that. Thanks for entertaining my thought exercise :)

Re: Cuba’s Bitcoin Revolution

#30

Post by notahacker »

wesleywt wrote: post #19
arcticbull wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A volatile currency with direct transaction fees ranging from $0.05-60 [edited per FreeRadical - thanks!] and indirect transaction fees of roughly $90 (socialized block reward). Whose value dropped 50% in a month then went up 50% in a month (which of course still leaves it 25% below its near-term highs). I don't think even the Cuban Peso performs like that. Think about both of those in terms of the average salary of…

Bitcoin was a saviour for many ordingary folk in Venezuela during the hyperinflation crisis. It worked as intended. https://www.dw.com/en/venezuelans-try-to-beat-hyperinflation... Why would a country embargoed by the USA use USD?

Because Venezuelans have been buying and selling things locally in black market dollars for decades, and even if they want to hold their dollars in offshore accounts, the US isn't interested in stopping them unless they're a regime insider (quite the opposite actually)

As for Maduro, he's just trying to stop capital flight.

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