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On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

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Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#91

Post by mattbee »

jsherry wrote: post #14

Here's what you see when you search the term "insurance" on airbnb.com: http://www.airbnb.com/help/search?q=insurance Something like this would be more reassuring: http://support.getaround.com/kb/insurance-infractions/how-do...

The article says they are working to offer an "insurance option" to hosts. So what, if it happens again to a host who hasn't taken this option, they're screwed? What would have been more reassuring is saying "airbnb will of course fully indemnify hosts against guests damaging their property" - as they've had to do in this recent case. He seems to say that airbnb are working in the opposite direction in future though.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#92

Post by va_coder »

axiom wrote: post #13

Can we agree that the host here is at least partially responsible for what happened? First, let me say that what happened was horrible, and the person who did the damage should go to jail for a long long time. AirBnB should cover the cost of all damages as a gesture of goodwill. It's really a shame that this kind of stuff can happen, but the reality (that I'd hope most people understand) is that not 100% of the popul…

"left a key for a total stranger to her home"

Exactly. You have to be crazy to be a host with AirBNB

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#93

Post by thom »

Bruce Shneier often talks about terrorist tactics only being worrying when they are reliable enough to build a plot around - if a someone gets through security checks by random chance, it's sad, but not a fundamental flaw in the system because nobody could plan to exploit the same situation in the future.

My worry about this case is that this does seem an entirely reliable and repeatable method of nastiness. I'm happy to assume that any given random person is fundamentally good, but now that it's been demonstrated that identity fraud + Airbnb = swag, fundamentally bad people will be actively planning ways to exploit it.

I'm glad someone's in custody, but I don't see anything announced in this post that is going to dissuade wrongdoers from looking at Airbnb as a massive opportunity.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#94

Post by colinplamondon »

georgemcbay wrote: post #20
axiom wrote: post #13

Can we agree that the host here is at least partially responsible for what happened? First, let me say that what happened was horrible, and the person who did the damage should go to jail for a long long time. AirBnB should cover the cost of all damages as a gesture of goodwill. It's really a shame that this kind of stuff can happen, but the reality (that I'd hope most people understand) is that not 100% of the popul…

"She literally left a key for a total stranger to her home, without doing ANY due-diligence. Someone basically sent her an email, and she said "okey-dokey, here's the keys, have fun."" I don't use Airbnb from either side, but isn't the big problem here that you can't do due dilligence? As I understand it (and again, as a non-user maybe I am wrong), Airbnb pretty much blocks you from knowing too much about your tempor…

The guy spelled his name wrong- it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know something weird is going on.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#95

Post by rweba »

axiom wrote: post #13

Can we agree that the host here is at least partially responsible for what happened? First, let me say that what happened was horrible, and the person who did the damage should go to jail for a long long time. AirBnB should cover the cost of all damages as a gesture of goodwill. It's really a shame that this kind of stuff can happen, but the reality (that I'd hope most people understand) is that not 100% of the popul…

They SHOULD get bad press, their service is MASSIVELY risky.

After this incident I feel very disinclined to rent out my personal residence through Airbnb and I think a lot of people would feel the same way.

Unless they really need the money.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#96

Post by scottbessler »

X-Istence wrote: post #74
Vivtek wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever you are, I'm the same, because it's the second thing I thought of. But the first thing was that there are a lot of privileged young people out there whose friends might very well have thought a week of utter abandonment and breaking every possible rule would be the height of fun. And yeah, I can easily see that privileged young asshole finding it the height of humor to email the owner every now and then sayi…

I was recently talking to the home owner for the property I am renting and they told me that out of everyone they are renting to I along with my room mates are the most patient and most caring and following up than any of their other tenants. I actually care about the property, I talk to them when something happens, I follow up and make sure work gets done that is supposed to be done. The homeowner was telling me abo…

While renting an apartment the dishwasher broke and I offered to install the new one. The landlord turned me down and scheduled it for a time I had to be at work and took the opportunity to snoop around and accuse me of harboring a child that I had not told him about (in reality, my niece would visit a lot so we had a bunch of toys for her). He withheld the entire security deposit on those grounds. So it cuts both ways with the unreasonable humans. :)

Happy ending though, because Chicago has fantastic renter's rights so we got all the money back and then some.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#97

Post by loganfrederick »

onan_barbarian wrote: post #65
spolsky wrote: post #38

I can't stop thinking that this was a top-secret hit job by some shady character working for the hotel industry looking to derail AirBnB's next fund-raising round. Heck, if Nixon could do it, why couldn't The American Hotel & Lodging Association? So my question to you is: am I quite paranoid or merely rather paranoid?

Occam's razor favors the 'meth-heads in her flat for a week' or 'malicious crazy person' hypotheses over the 'top-secret hit job' hypothesis. In your shoes, I would be more than a bit embarrassed to have espoused this particular conspiracy theory in public.

Joel might be famous in the technology space and maybe a bit wider via his Inc. magazine articles, but I doubt many people from the hotel industry care what he has to say on the matter. He's just posing hypotheticals anyway.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#98

Post by lutorm »

AshMokhberi wrote: post #81
kevinpet wrote: post #60

AirBNB has a huge asymmetric trust problem. The hosts have real physical addresses and need to be able to take a payment. Hosts can easily be held accountable. The guests on the other hand could be anyone. The company's attitude seems to be that allowing the host to interview the guest over email is sufficient to vet the guest. That's absurd. I don't have any special ability to identify a con artist vs. an honest per…

It really gets on my nerves when I see cases like this and the responses that follow. As you have pointed out, you have no special skills to be able to recognise con artists or criminals. As this is the case with most people, how would having further private information on the guest help you to make a different judgement. Unless we start talking criminal background checks, you are no safer than before. If anything it…

Your safety should still be your top concern. You should not be relying on another to provide it for you.

I'm sorry, but I find these type of comments useless. So you're saying there's nothing AirBnB could do and there's no need for them to worry about it, so we can just end the conversation right now?

I think the point that was made was that there is an inherent asymmetry in that the guest can remain more anonymous than the host. Since the guest is more anonymous, there are less incentives to don't do stupid stuff as you can more likely avoid repercussions.

I interpreted the suggestion as thinking of ways to hold the guest more accountable. Maybe by having a verified bank account? Maybe a credit card held for long enough that it's reasonably not stolen (though could still be a stolen identity).

And yes, of course any system can be circumvented by a sufficiently motivated individual. But, like with locking your front door, it's about making it complicated enough that it's not worth it given the reward.

* Nor should you expect them to put systems in place that violate the rights of the majority*

This makes no sense. How exactly would AirBnB violate anyone's rights? It's a voluntary service you can use if you so desire.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#99

Post by lutorm »

colinplamondon wrote: post #94
georgemcbay wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"She literally left a key for a total stranger to her home, without doing ANY due-diligence. Someone basically sent her an email, and she said "okey-dokey, here's the keys, have fun."" I don't use Airbnb from either side, but isn't the big problem here that you can't do due dilligence? As I understand it (and again, as a non-user maybe I am wrong), Airbnb pretty much blocks you from knowing too much about your tempor…

The guy spelled his name wrong- it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know something weird is going on.

As someone whose name looks like a misspelled English version of the name, I think you're jumping to conclusions there.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#100

Post by singular »

Vivtek wrote: post #76
X-Istence wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was recently talking to the home owner for the property I am renting and they told me that out of everyone they are renting to I along with my room mates are the most patient and most caring and following up than any of their other tenants. I actually care about the property, I talk to them when something happens, I follow up and make sure work gets done that is supposed to be done. The homeowner was telling me abo…

Oh, yeah, my experience as a landlord makes me a fantastic tenant. Last place I rented before buying the current house, I was working on fixing the roof in my spare time - mostly because I really like to be fixing houses in my spare time anyway and, as we were in Puerto Rico, the roof was concrete and thus a really new and fun experience. All it takes is just a teeny bit of responsibility. Landlording somehow filters…

I've heard similar horror stories from friends who rent places out, however it does cut both ways - for myself, despite going absolutely out of my way to be a good tenant, I have had landlords try to rip me off (several times), scream at me because I dared remind them that it'd been > 6 weeks since I'd asked them to look at the faulty gas boiler (!), etc.

I think some landlords need to learn to appreciate good tenants as well as to be wary of the bad ones.

Note: I don't mean to imply you, or even most landlords are like this, it's just that there are some out there and they need to learn how to behave decently just as such tenants do too...

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