For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm • Hacker News Board

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#401

Post by Cookingboy » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

velcii wrote: post #248

Cookingboy wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I was under the impression that comps have the practice of giving work to people that might produce good results with that kind of work, and trust me, people who might produce good results will want the freedom WFH makes possible. Just because companies were only giving WFH opportunity to high performers doesn't mean all high performers prefer WFH opportunities. Have you considered the possibility that some people a…

>Even for the best employee who do the most amazing kind of work, being in person and take advantage of politics and "ass kissing" would only help, not hurt. I find this statement so out of reality. Because often what happens is that this "best employee" gets side tracked by someone who is not actually productive, but just good at playing politics. So our hypothetical "best employee" will have to play politics in add…

There are a ton of productivity to be gained for people who otherwise cannot be as productive working alone remotely, that’s something you seem to not realize.

There is so much to measure how much an engineer contributes other than how many lines they churn out or how many PRs they merge. Things like training, mentorship, organizational level influences are critical to a company’s success.

In fact, companies values a lot of those soft impact so much more than raw productivity.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#402

Post by wittycardio » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

jimsimmons wrote: post #273

What bothers me more is that these tech companies aren’t even trying to have a conversation with their employees. If they did a survey and collected opinions from their employees the decision would be pretty trivial. But the managerial gang knows that and they want to side step it. The companies want to pretend they care about the employees. They claim to be giving them perks. In reality, these perks are just gamific…

HN has a bias towards WFH but that's definitely not true in my circles. Developer productivity is notoriously hard to measure but by most measures it is lower at home. I'd rather fewer hours of more focused productive work than a low level anxiety about work all day, which is functionally what wfh has become

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#403

Post by Cookingboy » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 4:48 PM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #267

Cookingboy wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting how you used Taiwan and hackathons as example. Despite their successes, I'll bet a decent amount of money that after Covid is over, many hackathons will resume to be in-person events. In fact, think of this the other way, would people in Taiwan be happy if they hear they will be locked down forever ? Of course not right? So people obviously derive some value from human interaction. And that value, as…

> Despite their successes, I'll bet a decent amount of money that after Covid is over, many hackathons will resume to be in-person events. Of course this is true, but that isn't evidence that hackathons are inherently more productive if they're in person. In some ways, they're less productive in person. Digital hackathons allow for quick live-translation between English and Mandarin, for example. Communication is eas…

> Of course this is true, but that isn't evidence that hackathons are inherently more productive if they're in person. In some ways, they're less productive in person.

But human beings aren’t robots, and we value a ton of things other than pure efficiency and productivity.

And I’m the OP here, fwiw, I think the hybrid approach where people go to office 1-2 times a week will be the most universally accepted.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#404

Post by throwaway14356 » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 5:04 PM UTC

4 years my manager never shows himself, never calls and never sends messages to anyone. I cant tell if he aced it or simply doesnt care to do work. He might be dead for all i know.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#405

Post by mixmastamyk » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

grawprog wrote: post #72

I dunno, for a group of people who seem to believe you're worth a ridiculous amount of money per hour, think of what your time is worth. You folks that make a living programming off exceedingly decent wages. You don't break your bodies every day, you're not forced to spend all day moving wood and metal, filling bags full of garbage, hauling shit that weighs 50+ lbs all day every day. You just gotta sit and think and…

"Won't someone think of the insurance company execs?"

Leadership bonuses are just not cutting it this year... amirite?

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#406

Post by jxidjhdhdhdhfhf » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

throwaway14356 wrote: post #404

4 years my manager never shows himself, never calls and never sends messages to anyone. I cant tell if he aced it or simply doesnt care to do work. He might be dead for all i know.

Sounds like the perfect job. I've always wanted a job that requires no effort or time.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#407

Post by karottenreibe » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 5:25 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #397

V-2 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rates in Poland have really risen as of recent (so has the inflation, but that's a different story). There's a lot of offers in the 120-150 PLN/h (26-33 EUR or 31-38 USD) range; not long ago I had three offers from the top of this range to choose from, and I eventually stayed at my current place since they equalled this rate. And yes this is wage per hour, because self-employment/B2B is highly popular in IT, for…

That's a bit less dramatic than I would expect; $37.50 USD/hour is the wage I made as an intern in San Francisco 5 years ago.

It's a bit more dramatic if you look at cost of living again as GP did. Numbeo again:

> You would need around 3,309.51$ (12,912.27zł) in Warsaw to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 8,500.00$ in San Francisco, CA (assuming you rent in both cities).

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#408

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

3grdlurker wrote: post #338

peakaboo wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't wait to get back to the office. > I don't have dedicated remote work space and that really eats into my productivity. Also being home and having no external pressure to keep working I can already see any breaks people tend to take are way longer than what they would take at the office. (Now someone is going to tell me that this just shows that people need more breaks, but I don't believe that) > It also hel…

You see it as OC making excuses or not having discipline, I see it as you wasting valuable time by taking it upon yourself to do things you can ask or pay others to do for you. You might as well reprehend OP for working smart because you work unnecessarily hard. I mean, the attack is so deeply personal yet you don’t know anything about OC’s circumstances. Maybe OC knows how to cook a little but he really sucks at it?…

[deleted]

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#409

Post by commandlinefan » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

acituan wrote: post #105

Cookingboy wrote: post #57

As preferable as WFH is for many and as productive as many people can be while working remote, at the end of the day, you can't change human nature. There is a reason why companies like Google are doubling down in Silicon Valley real estate. They believe that the best, most innovative type of work are the results of organic discussions and unscheduled, unplanned, casual human interactions. So many cool ideas and new…

> There is a reason why companies like Google are doubling down in Silicon Valley real estate. They believe that the best, most innovative type of work are the results of organic discussions and unscheduled, unplanned, casual human interactions. So many cool ideas and new projects were the results of a casual lunch discussion even just random hallway chats When was the last time you've used a big corp product that so…

> > They believe that the best, most innovative type of work are the results of organic discussions and unscheduled, unplanned, casual human interactions

> When was the last time you've used a big corp product that sounded like a water-cooler idea?

Just because something doesn't work doesn't mean MBAs don't keep insisting that it does.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#410

Post by lexapro » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

yodsanklai wrote: post #327

lexapro wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So everyone living in a city should have to move to a cheaper area because their pay was cut for no reason? If anything the company should be paying more, because they save money on office space which now the employee is covering.

That would happen if there's no pay cut. Why would I live in NYC, Hong Kong or London if I can get the same salary and live like a king in a cheaper country? The pay cut will not apply to people working remotely in an expensive city (at least it doesn't in my company)

What makes you so sure that would happen? Many people like the city and have friends & family there. And for the company it makes zero difference if you work from some small town in Mississippi instead of NYC.