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For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

economist.com

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Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#391

Post by barry-cotter »

dheera wrote: post #108
Teever wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a reason why companies like Google are doubling down in Silicon Valley real estate. As a person who lives in a geologically stable region I have to chuckle because it is entirely possible that this comment will age as terribly as that 'which country is best equipped to deal with a pandemic (2019) post that we saw recently. I don't deny the part of your comment about in person interactions being the foundat…

> What the hell is America going to do if there is a cataclysmic event that takes out this region? The east coast isn't much better off either. If a tsunami hits the Pacific, there are enough hills and mountains between the coast and say, Palo Alto or Mountain View, that not that much will happen. Half of SF is probably safe from tsunamis too just because of the high hills. Corporate offices are probably built earthq…

> Nuclear power stations in Newark would become the next Fukushima disaster.

Note, we’re not sure anyone died from radiation from Fukushima. We can be certain more people died from the evacuation though.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#392

Post by aeoleonn »

grawprog wrote: post #72

I dunno, for a group of people who seem to believe you're worth a ridiculous amount of money per hour, think of what your time is worth. You folks that make a living programming off exceedingly decent wages. You don't break your bodies every day, you're not forced to spend all day moving wood and metal, filling bags full of garbage, hauling shit that weighs 50+ lbs all day every day. You just gotta sit and think and…

If i's so easy, why aren't you one?

"On his first day in Japan, Cook met with the 84-year-old Masako Wakamiya, the world's oldest app developer who released her first iPhone app in 2017, and 13-year-old Jun Takano, who's believed to be the youngest in her profession."

https://observer.com/2019/12/apple-ceo-tim-cook-visit-japan-...

You cannot equate being a tradesman to a software engineer:

Being a software engineer requires highly intense focus for hours on end, unpacking and repacking equations in different languages, which you must continuously teach yourself while using them to build things.

Also, here's no reason you cannot become one.

Unless of course, you're not willing to do what it takes. And guess what amigo: It takes time, effort, and the ability to simply sit and focus at a desk for 4-8 hours per day and teach yourself several related languages, and client (browser) & server (such as 100% free, open source, Linux) configuration methodologies.

Can you do that?

So don't blame anyone but yourself for your choice not to go to google right now and search for "Roadmap to becoming Full Stack Web App Developer" or "Roadmap to becoming a Mobile App Developer".

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#393

Post by ihatetech »

Zandikar wrote: post #344
grawprog wrote: post #72

I dunno, for a group of people who seem to believe you're worth a ridiculous amount of money per hour, think of what your time is worth. You folks that make a living programming off exceedingly decent wages. You don't break your bodies every day, you're not forced to spend all day moving wood and metal, filling bags full of garbage, hauling shit that weighs 50+ lbs all day every day. You just gotta sit and think and…

Ah yes, The trades are underpaid and undervalued and as such everyone else that gets paid more is entitled and not deserving of a living wage and should just "suck it up". This sort of thinking just drags everyone down, and improves nothing for anyone. It's how we got to where we are, instead of "the good ol' days" where a single income near a minimum wage exceeded the skilled trades wages relative purchasing power o…

Very hilarious that you think gp is complaining when they are suggesting to suck it up. Pretty much proving you are spoiled and overpaid.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#394

Post by hackflip »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #317
genezeta wrote: post #225

I'm doing interviews now and, naturally, the question comes up. Am I looking for a remote position? Would I mind that the position is only partially so? Or that it is fully on-site? Obviously it's just anecdotal data , and I'm in Europe. So take this with a grain of salt, but I'd say: * There has undoubtedly been a big rise in remote positions, but not a huge one. Many of these seem to come from companies willing to…

I can confirm the anecdotal observation, companies are becoming more open to work from home, but most still have a "at least X/days week in the office" rule, which kind of defeats the main benefit for me as I still have to live close to the office (instead of moving to cheaper parts of the country or event world).

If I need to come in every day, I want to be a 30 minute walk away. If I need to come in once a month, I'm fine being a 1-2 hour drive away.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#395

Post by ihatetech »

Zandikar wrote: post #344
grawprog wrote: post #72

I dunno, for a group of people who seem to believe you're worth a ridiculous amount of money per hour, think of what your time is worth. You folks that make a living programming off exceedingly decent wages. You don't break your bodies every day, you're not forced to spend all day moving wood and metal, filling bags full of garbage, hauling shit that weighs 50+ lbs all day every day. You just gotta sit and think and…

Ah yes, The trades are underpaid and undervalued and as such everyone else that gets paid more is entitled and not deserving of a living wage and should just "suck it up". This sort of thinking just drags everyone down, and improves nothing for anyone. It's how we got to where we are, instead of "the good ol' days" where a single income near a minimum wage exceeded the skilled trades wages relative purchasing power o…

The privilege in this thread is unbearable. Luckily you have dang to suck your dick if you get offended

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#397

Post by closeparen »

V-2 wrote: post #326
ca01an wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, what sort of salary range would there be for engineers in your country?

The rates in Poland have really risen as of recent (so has the inflation, but that's a different story). There's a lot of offers in the 120-150 PLN/h (26-33 EUR or 31-38 USD) range; not long ago I had three offers from the top of this range to choose from, and I eventually stayed at my current place since they equalled this rate. And yes this is wage per hour, because self-employment/B2B is highly popular in IT, for…

That's a bit less dramatic than I would expect; $37.50 USD/hour is the wage I made as an intern in San Francisco 5 years ago.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#398

Post by closeparen »

nick0garvey wrote: post #162
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #133

I can't wait to get back to the office. I don't have dedicated remote work space and that really eats into my productivity. Also being home and having no external pressure to keep working I can already see any breaks people tend to take are way longer than what they would take at the office. (Now someone is going to tell me that this just shows that people need more breaks, but I don't believe that) It also helps wit…

I also prefer working in the office but this feels a bit over the top. Is it really way harder to get dressed at the end of the day instead of the start? Is it that much cognitive pressure to feed yourself? Working in the office has its benefits, but working from home is not a crushing experience for a programmer compared to most workers.

Think about why the NEET / basement gamer stereotype attracts such disgust, derision, and pity.

The only thing different about being a remote worker is that what's on your computer screen is on average less engaging than a video game.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#399

Post by Cookingboy »

oytis wrote: post #287
Cookingboy wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Such things are usually unnecessary to the task at hand, and often detrimental Have you considered the mere possibility that many people's work have different types of tasks than yours? It's so hard not to make stereotypical jokes about engineers when reading comments like this XD

But we are talking about engineering work, right? That's what discussed article is about.

A huge portion of an engineer’s job (especially senior level engineers) aren’t strictly technical. This seems to be something people miss.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#400

Post by rightbyte »

blazespin wrote: post #179

WFH works OK, but the majority of staff needs to be WFH. When it's the other way around, I find it just becomes a political nightmare. Office workers band together and it's rather trivial for them to sideline WFH. (eg, lunch / hallway / watercool, etc) Also, it takes awhile for the DNA of company to become WFH. Just sending office drones home rarely works. Ideally it would start out WFH. Likely these big time ceos th…

> Office workers band together and it's rather trivial for them to sideline WFH. (eg, lunch / hallway / watercool, etc)

What? I mean it is way easier to sideline in a WFH environment. Just send a mail, DM or do a call. WFH does not solve sidelining if that is a problem.

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