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Life Improvements Since the 1990s

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Re: Life Improvements Since the 1990s

#151

Post by version_five »

lostlogin wrote: post #118
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take 91. I get to experience all the exciting personal computing technology again before it all becomes web appliances and dark patterns. Back when the internet, if you could get it, was a place of wonder instead of terror.

If you are going back Marty, there are a few timelines I’d like altered.

Fun fact is that the alternate 1985 in Back to the Future II where Biff ran Hill Valley was actually based on what it would be like with Donald Trump (as the sleazy casino developer) in charge.

Re: Life Improvements Since the 1990s

#152

Post by dalbasal »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #20

I think he kind of missed the elephant that is modern communication technology has reduced the marginal cost of skilled services enabling pretty much every object designed in an office and manufactured in a factory to benefit from a broader array of engineering and design professionals and methodologies. The average product and service that the average actor in the economy interacts with is designed and optimized to…

"From farming to high finance products and services are substantially more influenced and optimized by specialist professionals than they were in 1990. Increase efficiency like this throughout the national and global economy is how lawnmowers and A/C units can be sold on sale for $100 and still make a profit. "

You can find examples of this, but overall, I dispute the generalization.

I think quality/price improvements have been monumental in some areas, stagnant in others. Computer related products have gone crazy. It's not more for less though, it's "much more for a little more." The market grew a lot and a produces a hell of a lot more. Even that isn't the norm though. More for less, even less for less, are uncommon.

Farming and manufacturing.... None of the capitalisation, gene patents and such of recent generations is anything like basic green revolution tech, in terms of productivity growth. Farming is different. It uses less labour, more capital, but it's not producing much more efficiently. The price of farm produce isn't falling, quality is not rising. Same for most manufacturing, especially basic manufacturing. Most of the last generations' gains were made by employing cheaper employees in cheaper places, not reinventing manufacturing techniques. So, low end, high volume manufactured goods got cheaper, but a car still costs what it costs. Good quality appliances generally do too.

The quality of housing has gone up, but prices are often very high.

Education... we have more and arguably better, but more expensive.

Medicine... same. More and better, but more expensive.

There's a pattern here that's more complex and interesting than the average.

Re: Life Improvements Since the 1990s

#153

Post by ghaff »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #130
ghaff wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably in 1991, you're getting in on the ground floor but it's a mixed bag. Your new grad salary is probably going to be around $40K or so in the US. And dot-bomb is 10 years in the future. And that list of companies is sort of a mixed bag. Adobe has mostly done pretty well through the years. Sun Microsystems did have a very good decade through the dot-com years but then didn't. Apple was really struggling at that…

Indeed it predates my entrance to the industry by a half-decade but one thing that's notable about this period is the technology stacks being built during it would in large part be heavily de-emphasized later when the web exploded. If you were at Apple, you'd be working on a platform (Mac OS classic, or Copland, or Newton) that would be thrown away by the end of the decade. If you were working at DEC, likewise. (VMS,…

For me, Sun definitely looks like the most attractive company on that list. (Though Microsoft might well have been a perfectly good job.)

For one thing, you'd have been much more plugged into the coming internet revolution broadly than any of the others. You'd also have been at least connected to the open source world although Sun resisted aspects of it in many ways.

They were also primarily in Silicon Valley unlike the others.

Re: Life Improvements Since the 1990s

#154

Post by mech422 »

ghaff wrote: post #98
namdnay wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I could understand this as a blue collar worker, but you’re saying you’d prefer to be a software engineer in 91 than 2021? Come on, of pretty much all the professions were the ones who have reaped the most benefits of the past 30 years

Arguably in 1991, you're getting in on the ground floor but it's a mixed bag. Your new grad salary is probably going to be around $40K or so in the US. And dot-bomb is 10 years in the future. And that list of companies is sort of a mixed bag. Adobe has mostly done pretty well through the years. Sun Microsystems did have a very good decade through the dot-com years but then didn't. Apple was really struggling at that…

I moved from Wall St. to the West coast in the 90s. Both paid above average programmer salaries for the time, but S.V. was the place to be for tech. So much going on, so much demand.

Re: Life Improvements Since the 1990s

#155

Post by dalbasal »

inglor_cz wrote: post #145
dalbasal wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. I considered clarifying, but didn't to be concise. I think publication as a reasoning for granting patents is superseded. It's mostly relevant to the history of patents, not the present. You can't be secretive about a UI, or the chemical composition of a drug.

WD40 formula is famously still secret.

I guess that's an example in both directions. WD40 formula is secret despite the existence of patents.

Re: Life Improvements Since the 1990s

#156

Post by lostlogin »

Neat list.

I have issue with this one in part:

> Not Watching crummy VHS tapes, period

The rewind button actually worked 100% of the time.

I also have an issue with the like for USB. Yes, it’s better than most 90’s tech, but USB-C in its various guises/disguises and it’s horrible relationship with Thunderbolt is a travesty. The cables and ports can’t reliably be distinguished and various things just won’t work, or become unreliable. It’s just so unhelpful to have so many identical specs in in form factor.

Re: Life Improvements Since the 1990s

#157

Post by inglor_cz »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #107
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #20

I think he kind of missed the elephant that is modern communication technology has reduced the marginal cost of skilled services enabling pretty much every object designed in an office and manufactured in a factory to benefit from a broader array of engineering and design professionals and methodologies. The average product and service that the average actor in the economy interacts with is designed and optimized to…

The downside to broadening the talent pool for design/manufacturing is that it means workers now have to be among the best in the world to get business and thus earn a good living. It no longer suffices to be the best in a local region. If each local region needs its own widget factory, then to become a top widgetsmith you only have to compete with the local widgetsmith talent pool. Just as there can be many high sch…

"workers now have to be the best in the world to get business and thus earn a good living"

This is extra pronounced for singers, actors etc., but not as much for people such as software engineers. A mediocre programmer that implements functionality that you need is much more valuable for you than a star programmer immersed in his UltraFastXMLParserForHaskell library and does not take side jobs.

Re: Life Improvements Since the 1990s

#158

Post by globular-toast »

basseq wrote: post #50
dminvs wrote: post #12

> stoves You'll pry my gas range from my cold, dead hands

My ideal range is 2 induction burners + 4 gas. Induction has a lot of the benefits of gas (e.g., instant temperature control), but gas is still superior for sautéing and continuous temperature control. Whenever I cook on gas, I miss the fast-heating of induction for things like pasta or potatoes. I also don't understand why all induction ranges have to be "high-tech" touchscreen crap. I'd love an induction stove with…

> Whenever I cook on gas, I miss the fast-heating of induction for things like pasta or potatoes.

In the UK, every kitchen has a fast-boil kettle (and has done for decades now) and those still boil water faster than an induction hob.

Re: Life Improvements Since the 1990s

#159

Post by wolverine876 »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #140
wolverine876 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that it means workers now have to be the best in the world to get business and thus earn a good living. It no longer suffices to be the best in a local region. Yes, though for most jobs there is far more demand than can be met by the best in the world. When someone needs a lawyer or software developer, they are very unlikely to hire the best in the world.

> When someone needs a lawyer or software developer, they are very unlikely to hire the best in the world. Certainly not the absolute best in the world, but they are still unlikely to hire a thoroughly mediocre worker who in a past world devoid of easy global communication and travel would have only been hired into a high-paying role by virtue of the fact that they were the only available worker with the necessary sk…

Agreed; it is more competitive, and therefore work should become more specialized. I wonder if it drives unemployment; I expect that it drives people to tasks they are more productive in (and perhaps more interested in, given greater options).

But let's also remember that much of the world doesn't use the Internet. In the US, large segments of the population lack computers (beyond phones) and high speed internet access. I know that during the pandemic, schools in poor districts had the problem that many of their students lacked those tools for remote learning.

And for FWIW, there are exceptions where the absolute best in the world dominate the market, such as in entertainment where the top musical performers, athletes, etc. collect almost all the revenue.

Re: Life Improvements Since the 1990s

#160

Post by mech422 »

bennyp101 wrote: post #70
iambateman wrote: post #14

I often ask people: “if you could be 20-years old in 1991 or 2021, which would you pick?” An incredible number of people pick ‘91. Some people even ask to go back to the seventies. This article explains why I would much rather be young now rather than before.

I was 7 then, and just getting into computers - playing with BASIC on the CPC464) so being 20 then would have been awesome, although I’d be proper old now ;)

sigh So I'm 'proper old' now ? :-P

When can I be 'improper old' ?? :-D

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