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The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

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Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#211
"Update: I spoke with Brian Chesky. He says the company has offered “to assist financially, find new housing for the host, and anything else she can think of to make her life easier.” He says they intend to “go above and beyond” to make the situation right for her. This is different than what a company spokesperson said earlier (see above). I asked Brian if this sets a new policy, and he responded that they’ll look at it on a case by case basis."

Basically what they mean by "case by case basis" is that if you cause enough of a media shitstorm to make them look bad, they'll step in and help. And they'll look at your case to determine if you are causing enough ruckus to validate them going "above and beyond."

At least, that's what I gleaned from it.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#212
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found this very glib, while we may mock insurance for certain things there are professionals in that industry. If an insurance company specialising in unconventional insurance don't think they can make money out of a premium, that does actually say something pretty insightful about the risk you're taking.

The professionals in the insurance industry specialize in estimating the risk associated with any endeavor. Innovation, especially disruptive innovation, is extremely risky in the beginning and is almost always perceived to be riskier than it is. This does not mean that it will stay risky forever and perceptions certainly change. Innovations that go mainstream become progressively less risky. If you'd like a specific…

You're arguing against yourself here - GetAround obtained insurance even while being disruptive.

More to the point, neither GetAround or AirBnB are in any way deep into territory that insurance hasn't ventured before. Insuring against burglary/damage in rental properties happens all the time, just like for rental cars.

The only times when insurance is unattainable is when the risks highly outweigh the premiums (SEE: Flood insurance in the Mississippi Delta) or when there is no actuarial data available which is tough to come by at this point.

For the first point I'm going to say the parent is very correct in avoiding this type of un-insurable behavior. And as for the latter, you had better have deep, deep pockets because if you can't even convince an insurance company of the risk, are you sure you've thought it through?

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#213
post #21

> I spoke to Airbnb about EJ’s situation. They won’t reimburse her for damages This is bad news. They're going to backtrack on this. The sooner they do it, the better for them politically. I understand the problems of setting a precedent. And there really is no getting around the fact that the hosts do have the final responsibility for screening travelers (and travelers for screening hosts). But rightly or wrongly, t…

> "we've made sure our customer is whole." When it gets to personal things like "found ... grandmother's jewelry" and "I don't have the mental energy to take those last few steps into my apartment. It's too creepy in there anyway." It's really hard to "make someone whole" with a cash payout. There's a lot of distress involved. It's not just a case of "TV was stolen, TV costs $500, here's $500". There's family heirloo…

"we've made sure our customer is whole." - why do you assume this statement refers to monetary compensation?

Might be just me but i didn't read it like that at all.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're both right. Like most major crises, this one occurred as a result of not one "bug," but two or more bugs occurring simultaneously. The first "bug" arises from the fact that AirBnB is much like a pay-for-play dating service, with all of the flaws of that business model. They have to control communication between the parties to keep from being cut out of the revenue loop... which means that they indisput…

This. I definitely think this entire situation calls into question the feasibility of Airbnb’s continued success and their business model in general. They’ll need to find some way to address these problems to maintain confidence in the site, and as the site’s audience grows it may not even be possible to do so. I don’t dispute any of these things—my only real point was that it’s completely off-base to call Airbnb imm…

Yeah, I don't think they owe her anything, given that they never misrepresented their terms. But I also agree with those who argue that they should help her out as a gesture of goodwill. Sounds like they're indeed doing that.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a frigging break! I don't care what the long-term implications are Clearly you’re not a business person if you wouldn’t care what the long-term implications of your company’s response to this were. They have responsibilities to investors, employees, and other users—they’re (rightly) making a decision with those stakeholders in mind, not the woman who had her house ruined. I don't care about cost Again, clearl…

> Clearly you’re not a business person if you wouldn’t care what the long-term implications of your company’s response to this were. Doing the right thing is more important than making money. I'm really glad I learned that before earning my business degree. I'll tell you a story. A couple of years ago, during the height of the financial crisis, I decided to quit a pretty safe job, move across the country, and focus f…

"You profit from creating value."

I really wish more people, especially SV-esque startup people, approached business this way.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#216
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The professionals in the insurance industry specialize in estimating the risk associated with any endeavor. Innovation, especially disruptive innovation, is extremely risky in the beginning and is almost always perceived to be riskier than it is. This does not mean that it will stay risky forever and perceptions certainly change. Innovations that go mainstream become progressively less risky. If you'd like a specific…

You're arguing against yourself here - GetAround obtained insurance even while being disruptive. More to the point, neither GetAround or AirBnB are in any way deep into territory that insurance hasn't ventured before. Insuring against burglary/damage in rental properties happens all the time, just like for rental cars. The only times when insurance is unattainable is when the risks highly outweigh the premiums (SEE:…

I am not arguing against myself. People had been trying and failing to get insurance for car sharing for decades before Getaround succeeded at it. My co-founder is one of those people. Yet, even today, if you become a Getaround subscriber, your insurance company can cancel your policy. If that doesn't convince you about the slow moving nature of insurance companies, I don't know what will.

I know of few disruptive markets for which actuarial data sets are available.

Obviously you should think through the risks of starting a business not endorsed by insurance companies. If you have an appetite for such risk and believe the rewards (to yourself and/or to society) outweigh the risk, you should do it. Do you think Google could have bought insurance for their self driving cars before they started working on them?

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#217
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such an insurance would probably be pretty much impossible. If you get a legit HTBRAI ( house trashed by random asshole insurance ), you've automatically created a market where these HTBRAIs are priced, bought and sold. That means you are essentially gaming burglary. eg. if I buy 100 HTBRAIs in some dicey neighborhood and there's an incident, my contracts automatically go up in value. That's a huge incentive for crim…

It's an interesting point, but I don't see why it would be any different from any of the usual insurances (car, house, etc). A market based on life insurance policies which then incentivizes assassinations is a chilling thought, and strikes me as analogous to your scenario, but I don't think such a thing happens, right?

When people are planning to murder their spouse, then sometimes pressure them to get a life insurance policy. It doesn't look good if the police notice this.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#218
post #49

The only blessing in this story is that the miscreants made their damage so plainly obvious that the problems were identified quite quickly. If they'd been a bit more subtle and a little patient, they could've engaged in massive identity theft and financial fraud without ever making it clear that AirBNB was the attack vector.

How about something like concealing cameras through the house? There's so much potential for dangerous and creepy behavior.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the worst-case scenario would be that guest copies keys, returns, and rapes and kills the owner/occupant. Remember: once you've allowed physical access to your resources (computer, accounts, home, ...), all bets are off with regards to future security. AirBnB has a pretty intractable problem here. People aren't fundamentally vettable. It's an age-old problem. TSA, the HUAC, lie detectors, loyalty oaths, pledges,…

Whoa. Good point. Shit just got real. Thanks for creeping me out even further.

The risk has always been there. Have you ever seen/used a lock-pick gun? They'll open anything non-specialized in less than a second. Failing that, a lightly skilled (50h practice) lock-picker can open most household locks, even "secure" ones, in under fifteen minutes.

Beyond that, the lock/deadbolt/wall is pretty weak. A sledge hammer will open almost any door in a single blow. Windows are essentially just big gaping "serial-killer's enter here" signs, as you can easily break them and gain access to the domicile. Where, presumably you would feed on the brains and organs of the residents.

And worse, the phone company publishes a book that lists your name and address. No longer do serial killers need to drive endlessly, trying to stumble upon a Stuart or a Fred, they can just pick up a phone book and they'll find a perfect list of people, indexed by name for easier killing.

PANIC!

But seriously now, you're over-reacting here. These risks are everywhere and AirBnB was just another way to meet another person.

What I'll consider unethical is if they do anything differently for this lady, who got the media attention first, than they'd do for anyone else.

I don't necessarily think they're liable, even morally. It depends on how they represent themselves. If they purport to offer screened participants and don't, that's a problem. But if they don't it simply means they're offering a lesser service, pay accordingly.

I want a market to exist for cheap and potentially dangerous things instead of offering only padded kid-safe versions. For instance, Lithium-polymer remote-controlled vehicle batteries. Essentially the same tech as the laptop/cellphone batteries that occasionally catch fire. But they don't have protective circuitry built in to prevent this. If you overcharge them they will catch fire. But they're far cheaper and you can draw more power than if they had safeties built in. If you're clear about the trade-offs what would cause a recall and lawsuit in one market can be perfectly acceptable in another.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#220
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the problems of setting a precedent. I don't, actually. If the financial industry has taught us one thing, it's that you can insure anything . Let's assume that this is a very rare occurrence and that the total cost of making this right (say, tops $100k?) can be amortized over the profit being generated. I have a hard time understanding how it'd be rocket surgery to get something in place to handle these…

AirBnb is illegal in some of the states (and when states/hotel industry/cities get a wind of this story, it will probably be illegal in all the states), so I doubt any legitimate insurance companies will be handling this affair.

legitimate insurance companies

Sounds like an oxymoron to me...

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