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Poly Network hacker returns $258M after stealing $600M

forbes.com

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Re: Poly Network hacker returns $258M after stealing $600M

#191

Post by CryptoPunk »

Closi wrote: post #74
CryptoPunk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that the specifications are formally specified, and thus can be objectively and automatically verified.

> automatically verified The implementation can be formally written and verified, but the specification itself cannot be automatically verified. That's effectively what a contract is anyway - it's a specification for a 'legal agreement' which is this sort of invisible obligation that is created after it is signed (for instance, the time spent in contract negotiations is usually spent debating what should happen in ed…

You're right, I meant automatically executed/enforced, without human involvement.

Re: Poly Network hacker returns $258M after stealing $600M

#192

Post by ramraj07 »

bko wrote: post #116
ramraj07 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not that HN is anti crypto, it’s that most (if not all) smart people are. The only smart people that are pro crypto are ones trying to sell shovels in the gold rush (like Elon or Dorsey). It’s ironic you’re asking this question in a thread about news proving how stupid crypto is to begin with.

https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart/

Post modernist retort kudos

Re: Poly Network hacker returns $258M after stealing $600M

#193

Post by JohnJamesRambo »

wesleywt wrote: post #96
jshen wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how the crypto community encourages circumventing laws, UNTIL someone steals from them using their own “smart” contract then calls on authorities for help.

Can someone explain to me why HN is so anti-crypto?

Most HN users are wealthy devs or they want to be wealthy devs or startup founders. They have no need for crypto and it threatens where their money is stored- equities and the traditional banking system. The “hackers” traded their soul for money.

It’s really no different than a wealthy old man hating crypto. He has no need for it, he doesn’t want others to use it to get past him. He sees no problem with the current wealth inequality because he is at the top.

Re: Poly Network hacker returns $258M after stealing $600M

#194

Post by pcthrowaway »

namdnay wrote: post #75
hamburgerwah wrote: post #16

I haven't seen any evidence there was in fact a hack at all. A digital contract was used in a way that complied with the contract that the bonehead writers of that contract did not intend. That's it. If bad contract writers get to cry "hack" and beg for their money back there is no point to digital contracts at all. If someone had physically or electronically broken into systems and illicitly copied private keys that…

> You have to be an absolute tool to use the poly network for anything serious ever again agreed > A digital contract was used in a way that complied with the contract that the bonehead writers of that contract did not intend. That's it I kind of disagree in philosophy here. If there's a bug in a bank API that lets me transfer funds to my account, I'm still "hacking", even if I'm doing exactly what the API lets me do…

Something that seems to be missed here, is that the bank has their physical servers owned by an institution, which you are exploiting. There is no physical server for Ethereum, the Smart Contracts don't exist anywhere.

You are likely also violating the terms of usage of the API and various other legally enforceable contracts by breaching the API.

If a smart contract included a terms of use however, it would be interesting to see whether this could be considered enforceable.

Re: Poly Network hacker returns $258M after stealing $600M

#196

Post by adwn »

Taek wrote: post #123
wesleywt wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain to me why HN is so anti-crypto?

It used to be very strange to me, but honestly think the answer is that a large number of HN community members are - somewhat ironically - very closed minded. Once you start to think in that framework you see it everywhere, and it goes all the way back to the original DropBox thread where some guy said "this is stupid you could just combine FTP with SVN". Of course that doesn't apply to everyone, and perhaps not even…

> a large number of HN community members are - somewhat ironically - very closed minded

The other side of that coin – excessive open-mindedness – however, leads to being susceptible to cults, snake oil salesmen, and hyped up technologies. Crypto currencies, in particular, frequently tick all three boxes. Skepticism is generally a good thing, and so far crypto currency proponents have failed to refute the arguments of sceptics.

Re: Poly Network hacker returns $258M after stealing $600M

#197

Post by shiado »

TekMol wrote: post #34
shiado wrote: post #18

Let S = smart contract writer's code intent - smart contract compiled code meaning. If S is legally meaningful it's all over for smart contracts. There's no way to prove the contract writer's intent, the compiler itself can have problems causing divergence, and it's not even possible to prove if the idea in the writer's mind can be captured by code. You could even come up with a sort of halting problem smart contract…

halting problem smart contract that's both fraudulent and not at the same time How would the halting problem help with that? With the halting problem, can't you just write code so that nobody knows if it will halt or not? I wouldn't say it halts and not halts at the same time. We just don't know if it will halt.

You define a smart contract where your intent is that it checks if other smart contracts are legal and runs them. Then you define a contract that runs the contract that checks if another contract is legal and then as the writer your intent is for the program to be illegal if the other program is legal and vice versa. Then you run this second contract through the first. If it is legal it is illegal and if it is illegal it is legal. Obviously there is no way to write a smart contract that checks if others are legal, but a writer can intend to write it which is where the problem of considering smart contract writer intent originates.

Re: Poly Network hacker returns $258M after stealing $600M

#198

Post by jstanley »

bgroat wrote: post #181
mlazos wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s so funny to me when everyone touts crypto + smart contracts as revolutionary™ then when you follow a system implemented with them to its logical conclusions you have analogs to everything that already exists. Lawyers to audit the contracts for bugs (and yes there can be bugs in a formally verified spec as well), courts to arbitrate disagreements, and an authority to enforce rules when someone finds a security ho…

This is my big problem with anarcho-capitalists. God didn't come down and give us governments. We started without order and survival based on individual output. And every single living thing beyond a threshold of intelligence agreed that it sucked.

The fact that some order is better than no order does not imply that more order is better than less order.

If you assume that adding more government always makes things better, then why not go all the way to complete totalitarianism?

If you agree that totalitarianism is too far, then I don't see why reasonable people can't disagree on which direction (more government or less government) is an improvement on the status quo.

Re: Poly Network hacker returns $258M after stealing $600M

#199

Post by ohhhhhh »

ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #156

A fun way to spend $600 million that you cannot launder anyway would be to put it in a smart contract and release it in portions to anyone who could solve a proof of work problem. Incidentally, the PoW problem would result in empty blocks being mined on Bitcoin, effectively executing a denial of service attack. The incentives should be adjusted so it becomes at least twice as profitable for a miner to mine empty bloc…

Dont you think the incentive to find a double spend flaw in bitcoin is large enough due to it's ever-increasing market cap?

Re: Poly Network hacker returns $258M after stealing $600M

#200

Post by corobo »

dagw wrote: post #124
mschuster91 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we seem to want to tear down all the institutions and values that got us here. Strike a "we", replace by "rich elites". "Small government" means in practice that most of what governments are doing now with taxpayer money at no-profit will be done by private for-profit companies, at a worse service level, or that regulations/regulatory agencies will be torn down. For the first, just look at private prisons - make a…

Strike a "we", replace by "rich elites". I don't agree. My 'poor' leftie friends are all about tearing shit down, while most 'rich' people I know are pretty happy with the way things are, wanting only to make small tweaks here and there.

Yeah rich people are (usually) Tories, also known as "Conservatives" here in the UK
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