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LulzSec's 'Topiary' arrested

nakedsecurity.sophos.com

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Re: LulzSec's 'Topiary' arrested

#91

Post by electromagnetic »

Hominem wrote: post #64
meatsock wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'm not sure if it is SOP, or the Secret Service thought they were dealing with violent criminals" seems possible the bulk of them had first learned about hackers at the same time they learned about the raid -- perhaps from someone who exaggerated the average size of a hacker's fangs. in any event it doesn't seem likely that in preparation for sundevil they'd have consulted with anyone that would have urged a relaxe…

Right, from the sheer scope of the raids I'm sure they thought they were dealing with some sort of syndicate, probably professional criminals branching out. They were absolutely dumbfounded, they didn't know whether to slap the cuffs on me or give me milk and cookies.

> they didn't know whether to slap the cuffs on me or give me milk and cookies.

Sounds like good cop, bad cop to the extreme. I think I'd deal in 5 seconds if a cop offered me milk and cookies over handcuffs.

Re: LulzSec's 'Topiary' arrested

#92

Post by burgerbrain »

nikcub wrote: post #43
dlss wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, since no one else is wading in here's what look like the usual suspects to me: - obvious digital connection (forgot to use tor / ipredator / hacked vpn) - timing attacks (keeping normal waking hours for his home country, using a vpn instead of tor) - word frequency attacks (since he wrote a lot of press releases, his word choices may have been cross correlated with a personal blog) - bragging to a friend - gett…

if I were tasked with catching these guys, I would: * setup numerous honeypot open proxies and tor gateways * work with journalists to have all emails and communications forwarded * isolate ddos clients and reverse-engineer command and control. surprisingly many of these trojans are poorly written and have security holes themselves * setup numerous fake twitter profiles and provoking them into responses - things like…

  "* setup numerous honeypot ... tor gateways"
What would that achieve?

Re: LulzSec's 'Topiary' arrested

#93

Post by burgerbrain »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #69
pygy_ wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They put the spotlight on the widespread disdain for security exhibited by major corporations regarding their client's data? That was the core message between the lulz. That said, dumping the full data was not necessary to make that point, even though it probably increased the media coverage, hence the spread of their message.

But the lulz were so loud that I could not hear the core message. They were certainly not primarily activists. At best, that was a scant moral cover for what was basically mass vandalism.

Why can they not be activists who seeking to increase the lulz?

Far better cause than saving whales or impeaching presidents.

Re: LulzSec's 'Topiary' arrested

#94

Post by burgerbrain »

gdcbyers wrote: post #49
pavpanchekha wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hold on, hold on, let me try to clear some things up. A criminal is a rigidly-defined adjective meaning an entity which breaks or broke laws. An activist is a rigidly-defined term meaning an entity which acts to further some idea and bring it to public perception. A hacktivist isn't well-defined, but we'll assume here that it's a form of activist. Now based on this, the Anonymous and Lulzsec hackers were hacktivists,…

I agree to the defined terms, and further purpose hacktivist is an activist who's chosen/preferred method is "technology", be it illegally accessing private systems, or building nifty robots out of servos and shit. But, what cause or idea have they furthered? Computer security? Social injustices? Tax evasion by corporate amarica? I can't find one other then their own personal enjoyment. I can not point to a single ac…

An activist need not be an effective activist to still be an activist.

PETA nailing people with red paint on the street is incredibly counter-productive to their cause. Hell, it probably actually increases sales of fur. They are still however activists.

Re: LulzSec's 'Topiary' arrested

#95

Post by burgerbrain »

dailyrorschach wrote: post #74
ryusage wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Activists tend to break laws, no?

One of the critical measures though is that most activists openly do so. Someone up-thread mentions that MLK was a criminal, and he was. As was Ghandi, and others. But they said here I am, here is what I am doing, and why I am breaking this law. And for civil disobedience to be effective, here's the kicker, they welcomed and expected the punishment. The idea that we would arrest another human being for sitting at a l…

Civil disobedience is only one of many forms of activism. The people who ran the underground railroad were in no hurry to make their identities known. Where they any less activists for it?

An arrested hacker activist is a hacker inactivist. Expecting them to allow themselves to become arrested is absurd.

Re: LulzSec's 'Topiary' arrested

#96

Post by trotsky »

nikcub wrote: post #43
dlss wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, since no one else is wading in here's what look like the usual suspects to me: - obvious digital connection (forgot to use tor / ipredator / hacked vpn) - timing attacks (keeping normal waking hours for his home country, using a vpn instead of tor) - word frequency attacks (since he wrote a lot of press releases, his word choices may have been cross correlated with a personal blog) - bragging to a friend - gett…

if I were tasked with catching these guys, I would: * setup numerous honeypot open proxies and tor gateways * work with journalists to have all emails and communications forwarded * isolate ddos clients and reverse-engineer command and control. surprisingly many of these trojans are poorly written and have security holes themselves * setup numerous fake twitter profiles and provoking them into responses - things like…

get user-agent info from twitter, or provoke them into visiting a link, and possibly load malware. no browser is really safe in a targetted attack

This is certainly the most direct way. I'd be pushing exploits from the twitter data center and sharing links to funny/cool #antisec whatever in irc hangouts. The client is almost always the weakest link here, and with people using multiple devices you get lucky once or twice and get some malware on a phone or pc.

If you're investigating foreign hackers on foreign soil you have a lot of leeway in terms of back hacking them, the US is definitely using this kind of approach in anti-terror.

Once you get the right guy and know it's him, share the details with the local authorities and let them figure out what legal info they have to build a case now that they know who they're after.

The other way I'd do it is with a fleshed out honeypot. Set up something tempting with two stages of flaws and some good documents. Bring the first flaw to on of the farm irc channels with something semi-juicy you got out of it. They'll probe the rest of the system and find the second dangled SQLi flaw and some juicy data. If you can set up and watch them in advance some mistakes will generally be made, and whatever documents and executables you leave to get stolen will probably end up being handled in an unsafe fashion. Think how tempting a VPN software token authenticator would be to run, and I highly doubt that stuff would get RE'd before it got run. If you can get them to voluntarily run some software they stole from you you won't be needing a warrant in advance.

Re: LulzSec's 'Topiary' arrested

#97

Post by jamesaguilar »

burgerbrain wrote: post #93
jamesaguilar wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the lulz were so loud that I could not hear the core message. They were certainly not primarily activists. At best, that was a scant moral cover for what was basically mass vandalism.

Why can they not be activists who seeking to increase the lulz? Far better cause than saving whales or impeaching presidents.

No.

Re: LulzSec's 'Topiary' arrested

#98

Post by billmcneale »

electromagnetic wrote: post #90
commandar wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we shouldn't arrest people when they commit a crime because others are committing the same crime? Or because they're doing it in a high-profile manner? I'm not sure what your point is here.

> It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong. ~Voltaire Our governments have no comprehension or understanding of the prospects or implications that the internet has on modern civilization. When an individual can take down an organizations method of operation (mastercard/visa/paypal), it isn't the individuals fault (regardless of their actions) it is the organizations fault.…

> When an individual can take down an organizations method of operation (mastercard/visa/paypal), it isn't the individuals fault (regardless of their actions) it is the organizations fault.

Who cares whose fault it is? It's illegal, they get arrested, it's simple really.

> You don't blame someone for stealing from a bank when they pile gold bullion in the entrance without a guard in sight. You blame the bank because that's fucking stupid.

Sure, you can do that. That, and arrest the person too because, you know, they broke the law.

Re: LulzSec's 'Topiary' arrested

#99

Post by seabee »

Confusion wrote: post #68
psone wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One may still be charged with obstruction of justice if there is a definite attempt to make unavailable evidence needed for a case, even if the unavailability is temporary until a suitable mirror can be found. It's such a broad definition for a criminal charge to have, and in this case I really think they would consider it.

Don't be silly. If a murderer burns the clothes in which he perpetrated the murder, he's not 'destroying evidence' in addition to being a murderer. Something must first have been determined to be evidence, before destroying becomes a criminal act. Neither are you obstructing justice by hiding evidence.

For similar reasons you are not compelled to incriminate yourself.

Re: LulzSec's 'Topiary' arrested

#100

Post by burgerbrain »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #97
burgerbrain wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can they not be activists who seeking to increase the lulz? Far better cause than saving whales or impeaching presidents.

No.

Care to explain? Or are you just here to troll?

I see that we are keeping this classy. Why am I not surprised?

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