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For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

economist.com

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Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#361

Post by xtracto »

rytis wrote: post #270
yodsanklai wrote: post #261

I'm surprised so many people are so angry about the pay cut. Using my company's simulator, the pay cut seems to be at most 15% of the base salary and most likely less than that. In my case, considering cost of living, it would certainly be most advantageous to work remotely. I would save more money and live in a much nicer place.

It's not about the actual numbers. It's the WHY. How come the company was ok to pay X when the employee was coming to the office, but now that the same employee is WFH (and thus may be saving some dosh) they are only entitled to 0.85*X? Presumably the said employee was producing a value of Y (where Y may have been > X). Has Y changed? If yes, then it's fair to do the reduction, but I doubt that is the case. It might…

I used to work in an office. Commuting for a total of 1.5hr a day to/from work. I was paid about $50 usd per hour ($8000 a month). When we went WFH bc of covid I saved about $200 a month in gas, $150 in food and $1500 (1.5x20x$50) in my time.

That was $1750 of $8000 which is more than 20%. My lifestyle changed way too much for the better. Once the CEO decided to get back to the office I searched for a new (remote) job and not only did I find it. They even gave me a raise

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#363

Post by phreeza »

arcturus17 wrote: post #301
phreeza wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say over and underpaid both do exist in scenarios where one party has undue/extortive power over the other. They don't exist in a well-functioning labor market.

What is extortive power?

On the employers side it could be something like monopsony where the employee can only chose to work at any wage or starve because no other jobs are available.

On the employees side it could be something like a politicians relatives getting high paying job because otherwise the politician will cause problems for the company.

Edit: I don't know if I misread your comment or you edited it, but it I think these coercions are covered by it.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#364

Post by adingus »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #362

Off-topic, but I have a dilemma: I worked in defense until recently so I've never worked from home. How do I not look like a fool in video interviews when everyone else has had time to build a WFH setup?

You wont look like a fool. I'm pretty sure most of my coworkers WFH setup consists of their laptop and a mouse.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#365

Post by _wolfie_ »

SynasterBeiter wrote: post #325
_wolfie_ wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Czech republic, based on seniority and skill level I would say between ~$2.5k and ~$7k salary per month before tax. But you lose like a half to the various taxes.

That's why you're supposed to be a contractor at that pay level.

In lot of cases that is illegal. Of course does not mean people do not do it.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#366

Post by arcturus17 »

phreeza wrote: post #363
arcturus17 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is extortive power?

On the employers side it could be something like monopsony where the employee can only chose to work at any wage or starve because no other jobs are available. On the employees side it could be something like a politicians relatives getting high paying job because otherwise the politician will cause problems for the company. Edit: I don't know if I misread your comment or you edited it, but it I think these coercions…

I agree, but none of that is even close to happening here… the market is mostly free and fairly efficient.

If anything, price information is not 100% transparent and that tends to benefit employers, but that exerts downward pressure on the wage rather than the opposite.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#367

Post by legerdemain »

option_greek wrote: post #264
legerdemain wrote: post #221

I used to walk to the office. Now, I need to buy office furniture and use up space in my own apartment, which my partner and I used for something else before. Either that, or rent a desk at a co-working space that I will need to drive to. (I don't own a car yet, but probably will need to buy one soon anyway to pick up groceries and restaurant meals.) I used to eat almost all my meals at work. Meals were subsidized by…

Not directed at you and not a popular opinion but in a way this is good. Companies like FAANG wants to run adult daycares where all the employee needs are taken care of. At some point in life, employees will have to face these issues when they no longer have a job/retired/have kids. This forced WHF has shown people there is life outside of work and work is a way to earn money to keep life flourishing with things that…

Being forced to lose income and benefits is good...? And up is down, no doubt.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#368

Post by magneticnorth »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #362

Off-topic, but I have a dilemma: I worked in defense until recently so I've never worked from home. How do I not look like a fool in video interviews when everyone else has had time to build a WFH setup?

I've just been using the video camera and mic on my Macbook Pro laptop the whole pandemic and I think a lot of my coworkers are the same way. I've certainly interviewed plenty of people on not-high-quality gear and it's no problem, so long as they can clearly hear the questions I ask.

Make sure the background of your space is neat, neutral, and not distracting, or use a zoom background.

Do you have any friends who can run a mock interview over Zoom for you and provide feedback?

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#369

Post by acituan »

Cookingboy wrote: post #123
acituan wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a reason why companies like Google are doubling down in Silicon Valley real estate. They believe that the best, most innovative type of work are the results of organic discussions and unscheduled, unplanned, casual human interactions. So many cool ideas and new projects were the results of a casual lunch discussion even just random hallway chats When was the last time you've used a big corp product that so…

>They are doubling down on real estate because they have sunken costs, I'm pretty sure a company like Google that has no problem killing unsuccessful products after multi-billion dollar investments, knows how not to fall for the sunken cost fallacy. > execs themselves probably have serious personal real estate positions and As opposed to move to a different state, buy a house 3x the size for the same money, and save…

> I'm pretty sure a company like Google that has no problem killing unsuccessful products after multi-billion dollar investments, knows how not to fall for the sunken cost fallacy.

Deadweight products vs appreciable assets are not the same thing. Not only they would have to justify throwing away their future returns on appreciation, if the word got out that any of the FAANG is liquidating tiniest bit of their real estate a panic pricing could erase a lot more. This is much harder to reconcile with fiduciary duty than “well, that deadweight product was costing us money with little in return so we’ll kill it”.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#370

Post by jusssi »

thorin wrote: post #347
jusssi wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The available selection could be a problem. Near my home, there's a sushi place, two pizzerias, a Subway, a chinese and some cafes that don't really serve anything I'd call lunch. After 1½ years I'm sick of all of them. I've been ordering from further away, but that costs 50-100% more, and many types of food lose quality in transit. Compared to the 30+ places reachable by foot within 45min lunch break at the office (…

Assuming this isn't a troll, I guess learning to make a sandwich or a salad is not outside the realm of possibility.

Looks like I to explain the background a little bit more to be not mistaken for a troll.

I know how to prepare meals, in fact we make over 90% of our dinners ourselves from ingredients. Having something else for lunch is for me an important escape from our own cooking, for both the effort and the taste. Not that it's bad, just that it also gets repetitive. We also have the small child aspect to consider for the stuff we make at home, he's a bit picky (e.g. only eats fish in a soup or fishfingers) so we can't quite do the variety we'd like.

There's nothing wrong with a quick salad or sandwich occasionally, but that gets boring too. Same for yesterday's leftovers, we usually make our dinners for two evenings, if I eat also the same stuff for lunch in between that's a bit too much.

Edit: Now I'm curious, is wanting to eat lunch out really such a weird thing it could be nothing else than a troll?

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