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Thunderbird 91.0

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Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#81

Post by trangus_1985 »

mdp2021 wrote: post #69
kettleballroll wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Master/Slave nomenclature is considered "problematic language" (because it harks back to slavery), and thus often replaced with more PC language these days. My organization had a whole "fix this nomenclature throughout the whole codebase" week (things like "black-/whitelist, master/slave, ....)

'Master' is not counterpart to 'slave', it is counterpart to 'inferior'. 'Master' is "greater" (ex ' magis '), vs "lesser". The most resounding example is fitting: «Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas». It is an ___extreme___ problem if somebody now thought [I change the tense out of refusal] that the term 'master' should not be used, especially if the perverse excuse were that someone used it in a way that makes s…

>The term 'master' is innocent. And it has close to fullest right to be part of the language.

Meanwhile, here in the good ol' USA, we might have mucked up that elegant latin lesson a little bit [0]

0 - http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/pds/maai/enslavement/tex...

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#82

Post by hulitu »

liotier wrote: post #13
cube00 wrote: post #4

CardDAV address book support Although it's sad that this will replace the plugins that provide this feature, it's good to see support built into the core and a continued investment in implementing standards.

I wonder about migration from plugins to that new core feature. I hope it doesn't break anything.

Migration is also a word which shall be replaced. /s When will this circuss end ? (sorry for using the word circuss)

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#83

Post by foresto »

renewiltord wrote: post #37
robert_foss wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think language matters, and de-normalizing language with a root in slavery is a good idea.

"Master Key" precedes or is parallel to the Atlantic slave trade. I don't believe it has a root in slavery. Master Password is surely more related to Master Key than to any other sense of Master. Not arguing that it should or shouldn't be changed. They can change it for alliteration for all I care. Just want to talk about this etymology because that interests me.

Language is complicated, but I think I agree. Here are the most relevant bits I found just now in the Oxford English Dictionary:

master, n.1 and adj.

[...]

Origin: Of multiple origins. Partly a borrowing from Latin. Partly a borrowing from French. Etymons: Latin magistr-, magister; French maistre.

[...]

The classical Latin word has numerous Romance and Germanic derivatives, e.g. Italian maestro (compare maestro n.), Spanish maestro, Portuguese mestre (compare maistry n.); Old Frisian mastere, mestere (West Frisian master), Middle Dutch meester, meister, mester (Dutch meester), Old Saxon mēstar (Middle Low German mēster, mester, meyster, Low German meester), Old High German maistar, maister, meistar, meister (Middle High German meister, German Meister; compare Meistersinger n.), Old Icelandic meistari (Icelandic meistari), Norwegian (Nynorsk) meister, Old Swedish mæstare (Swedish mästare), Old Danish mester (Danish mester). See also mistress n.

Senses in all four branches are paralleled by uses in Latin, in branch A. III. initially reflecting use of Latin magister in the medieval universities.

With uses at branch A. IV., compare adjectival use in French in the sense ‘principal’ (applied to people from c1100 in Old French, to material objects and immaterial things from the 12th cent. in Anglo-Norman); compare also Italian maestro , used adjectivally in this sense from the 14th cent.

[..."Master-gate" was the closest I could find to master password or key...]

Compounds

C2. Applied in extended use to things, with the sense ‘main’, ‘principal’, ‘controlling’, ‘originating’. In such compounds master is generally construed as a noun, but in some cases the grammatical character of the compound is uncertain or fluctuating, and master may be considered to be functioning as an adjective.

a. Of material things. Esp. frequent in terms relating to building and the human body (in non-technical use), and later to machinery, electronics, etc.

master-gate n.

1340 Ayenbite (1866) 249 (MED) Þe mouþ..is þe mayster gate of þe castele of þe herte.

a1500 (▸?c1450) Merlin 422 He com to the maister yate of the paleys.

c1720 N. Dubois & G. Leoni tr. A. Palladio Architecture II. iii. 7 The chief Entry, or Master gate.

1998 Re: Sad Sight on Test Center in rec.games.computer.ultima.online (Usenet newsgroup) 8 Feb. I created a new character and walked through a Master Gate to do exactly what you do.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#84

Post by peoplefromibiza »

robert_foss wrote: post #28
dotancohen wrote: post #26

> "Master Password" renamed to "Primary Password" How does the term "Primary Password" describe the password which enables access to the list of credentials better than "Master Password"? Are they just entertained by the alliteration?

I think language matters, and de-normalizing language with a root in slavery is a good idea.

master has no root in slavery.

to put it in another way: if master has to be removed because of slavery in america, then we should also remove the words chain, boat and trade.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#85

Post by post-it »

s3tz wrote: post #32
kettleballroll wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Master/Slave nomenclature is considered "problematic language" (because it harks back to slavery), and thus often replaced with more PC language these days. My organization had a whole "fix this nomenclature throughout the whole codebase" week (things like "black-/whitelist, master/slave, ....)

Fine, but at least make it consistent then. GitHub uses "main" and now this uses "primary", next someone will use "base" and I'm not sure at all how this is better in any way.

There's no reason they should be consistent. Different git hosts, sure, but a master branch and master password have nothing in common but the name (which is now different).

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#86

Post by el_oni »

mdp2021 wrote: post #69
kettleballroll wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Master/Slave nomenclature is considered "problematic language" (because it harks back to slavery), and thus often replaced with more PC language these days. My organization had a whole "fix this nomenclature throughout the whole codebase" week (things like "black-/whitelist, master/slave, ....)

'Master' is not counterpart to 'slave', it is counterpart to 'inferior'. 'Master' is "greater" (ex ' magis '), vs "lesser". The most resounding example is fitting: «Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas». It is an ___extreme___ problem if somebody now thought [I change the tense out of refusal] that the term 'master' should not be used, especially if the perverse excuse were that someone used it in a way that makes s…

while this might be true, the fact that there are master-slave analogies elsewhere makes other uses of master in CS suspect.

if the analogy had been "master-apprentice" instead there probably wouldnt be as much pushback everywhere else. while this particular instance might be an over correction, i think the overall trend has been a move in the right direction

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#87

Post by orangepanda »

el_oni wrote: post #80
seqizz wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"master" is a "blocklisted" word now. I also think it's silly to change the word on places which doesn't have "slave"s (e.g. github master branch > main branch switch), but well..

I read a gitlab blog[0] where they mention that "master" comes from bitkeeper where there was a master repository and slave repositories. It does make one wonder, if there was more diversity in CS when these things were being made whether "master-slave" analogies would have made it in or whether other analogies like "parent-child", "major-minor", "leader-follower" or similar would have made it in. [0] https://about.g…

"Out of memory: Sacrificing child" does sound vaguely better than "Out of memory: Sacrificing slave"

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#88

Post by cpach »

mdp2021 wrote: post #75
cpach wrote: post #70

I’ve given up on desktop e-mail clients. IMHO there’s currently no UI on the market that beats the Gmail UI.

Which of course you improve upon need /I(rony) Edit: after I wrote the above line, I realized that many people use closed source software... Well ok then.

Sorry, I don’t have great skills when it comes to UI design/UI programming.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#89

Post by unknownOrigin »

GrumpyNl wrote: post #51
dotancohen wrote: post #26

> "Master Password" renamed to "Primary Password" How does the term "Primary Password" describe the password which enables access to the list of credentials better than "Master Password"? Are they just entertained by the alliteration?

The word master has to be removed or avoided in all software.

Idiotic 1st world problem (actually, very much a "silicon valley soy latte problem"). I could see "slave" being somewhat problematic and people not wwnting to use it, but going after the word "master", which has nothing to do with a "slave" unless a "slave" is mentioned together with it in the same context, is EXACTLY the kind of overreach that (among other things) makes people vote for weird individuals like DT just out of spite. Many (and I do mean "many" as in "most") IT professionals in Europe are shaking their heads when seeing things like Github changing "master" to "main". It's ridiculous. That's what it is. Why can't American liberas just be normal for a while?
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