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The metaverse is a dystopian nightmare – let’s build a better reality

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Re: The metaverse is a dystopian nightmare – let’s build a better reality

#91
The author, John Hanke, raised VC investment from the CIA as CEO of Keyhole [1] before their acquisition by Google in 2004.

At Google, Hanke ran the Geo division while street-view cars were illegally collecting Wi-Fi data en masse [2].

Yet we're supposed to believe that he will build a metaverse that's NOT dystopian?

[1] http://web.archive.org/web/20030801175255/http://www.keyhole... [2] https://theintercept.com/2016/08/09/privacy-scandal-haunts-p...

Re: The metaverse is a dystopian nightmare – let’s build a better reality

#92

> Multiply this kind of channel x1000: Mario, Transformers, Marvel’s superhero universe, the world of Wakanda, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Bladerunner, Sherlock Holmes, Nancy Drew, The Maltese Falcon — all of these and countless more will exist as reality channels that you can turn on, transforming your daily routine into something a bit more magical, intriguing, exciting — and most of all, a little more fun. Important…

This is a really good take.

I would be very interested in seeing how a multi-million user AR equivalent to VRChat would play out. Layers of it could be extremely compelling or extremely ugly, like different rooms in VRChat are. Gibson, Vinge, and Stross have all given their takes on what this would look like too, but I expect the reality will be stranger than the fiction.

Re: The metaverse is a dystopian nightmare – let’s build a better reality

#93
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More money will allow them to develop vastly superior UI and user experience, better graphics, etc., and it will suck so many users from anything else that the other things will become tiny niche environments or die. Just like what happened with everything else including most of the open web.

Yeah but, all the interesting stuff happens in the niche corners of the internet. Let the mainstream play Fortnite, we'll enjoy better games that nobody knows about.

If niche stuff is most interesting to you, then you interests are niche, by definition. The stuff that is interesting to many people naturally tends to become mainstream.

Re: The metaverse is a dystopian nightmare – let’s build a better reality

#94
To me the metaverse is more about rules than the technical details.

We need an internet where people are not constrained in what they are allowed to do for earnings.

Open-source is only half the battle as content also need to shift. Open-content?

I made the network protocol: http://github.com/tinspin/fuse

And now I'm working on the file formats: http://talk.binarytask.com/task?id=5959519327505901449

Re: The metaverse is a dystopian nightmare – let’s build a better reality

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really want to gripe about "Ernest Cline's" Ready Player One. There was an element of dystopia to it, yes, but it was only the movie adaptation that came away with the takeaway that the virtual world was bad. In the movie they decide to add in the protagonist making the executive decision to shut down the virtual world on a couple weekdays or something. That pissed me off. That world was people's livelihoods. This…

I guess one problem with the virtual world in RPO is that it is centralized, and therefore people are fighting each other to control it.

The world in RPO is pretty nonsensical and the whole thing is a vehicle for nostalgia with a fairly formulaic plot. Nothing wrong with that it’s a fun beach read, particularly if you’re of a certain age. I was mildly terrified by the number of people I met a few years ago whilst working in VR who considered it aspirational. We’ll absolutely get a dystopia if the metaverse is based on teenage fantasy. Particularly with an AR vision that is rushing to put glorified ads for Disney and Marvel into the world.

Re: The metaverse is a dystopian nightmare – let’s build a better reality

#96
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t get why escaping reality is bad. Is theatre bad? Books? Movies? Providing a good escape from reality can lower people’s demands of reality, which can lead to a more sustainable future. If people can eat beans but be tricked into thinking they’re eating steak it can improve health and lower emissions, for example.

I'm starting to think my relationship with books might have been unhealthy in some of the same ways as video games. Theatre and movies might be similar for others. Less "escaping reality" and more "passive consumption at the cost of active creation".

Books feed you minimum data ... a string of characters ... completely devoid of any of the senses that you actually imagine you are experiencing: an active colorful audible 3D world.

Your own brain does almost all the work of manufacturing the reality, the author only provides the barest of guides. And your mind also adds layers of meaning onto whatever meaning the author makes explicit.

So I would say the act of reading a book is far from a passive or trivial activity.

In fact, I am hard pressed to imagine another activity so dependent on our own brain's ability for continuous creative production. D&D, scientific research, etc. all happen at a much slower pace.

Re: The metaverse is a dystopian nightmare – let’s build a better reality

#97
post #88

I built mirrorspace.net (beta up at https://app.mirrorspace.net/ ) which is a "mirror space" i.e. a virtual layer ontop of our normal physical space. Users can browse nearby landmarks (currently based on geolookup wikipedia entries) and also upload their own media. But the catch is, for anyone else to view your media and interact with it, they need to be within 50m of the upload location. This mechanic is meant to dr…

This is really cool even in its current form! Was very interesting to learn some new details about the local landmarks (center of Brussels). How did you determine the precise position on the map for the articles ?

I have a long time toyed with the idea of notes-photos-locations-time-internet activity interspersed into a single environment, which would allow to find things by association.

Having this onto a private hosted instance might be a very nice approach to increasing invasiveness of the device manufacturers by just making them thin terminals onto your own “activity content hub”.

Re: The metaverse is a dystopian nightmare – let’s build a better reality

#98

> Multiply this kind of channel x1000: Mario, Transformers, Marvel’s superhero universe, the world of Wakanda, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Bladerunner, Sherlock Holmes, Nancy Drew, The Maltese Falcon — all of these and countless more will exist as reality channels that you can turn on, transforming your daily routine into something a bit more magical, intriguing, exciting — and most of all, a little more fun. Important…

Excellent take. Corporate "control"/influence creeping into more and more aspects shoupd have all of us worried. The good news is that we right now collectively have a chance to shape our future digital interpersonal relationships and make sure this doesn't happen to an extent that would impact real life more than things like Instagram and Snapchat already have.

Re: The metaverse is a dystopian nightmare – let’s build a better reality

#99

> Multiply this kind of channel x1000: Mario, Transformers, Marvel’s superhero universe, the world of Wakanda, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Bladerunner, Sherlock Holmes, Nancy Drew, The Maltese Falcon — all of these and countless more will exist as reality channels that you can turn on, transforming your daily routine into something a bit more magical, intriguing, exciting — and most of all, a little more fun. Important…

> none of those people you're interacting with have any agency over those brands or IPs But they can with NFTs. This metaverse is currently being built on Ethereum.

You own an NFT of a Disney character, but that character is restricted to forbid performing the Vulcan salute, because that's from a different IP-verse. NFTs cannot be a fix for that. That's what's meant by not having agency.

Re: The metaverse is a dystopian nightmare – let’s build a better reality

#100
post #37

If augmented reality leads to neural implants it can potentially lead to an even worse dystopia if the technology is not open source. Limited access to resources may result in the coercion of workers into accepting patented neural implants in order to participate in an idea-based economy in order to accumulate any personal property necessary for survival. Accepting such implants might then allow direct surveillance o…

> Accepting such implants might then allow direct surveillance of thoughts so that all novel ideas which thinkers come up with are patented by private investors With the prevalence of cleartext cloud-based workflows (Discord, Slack, Notion, Google Docs, Github, ...) many people may already be living in a similar reality.

You just don't enter private thoughts into such systems. The line is pretty clear. The only problem is that if you want to WfH, it becomes nearly mandatory to establish side-channels for unofficial, non-company discussion between co-workers to replace neutral spaces in the office like the break room or cafeteria.
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