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On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

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Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#31

Post by finisterre »

axiom wrote: post #13

Can we agree that the host here is at least partially responsible for what happened? First, let me say that what happened was horrible, and the person who did the damage should go to jail for a long long time. AirBnB should cover the cost of all damages as a gesture of goodwill. It's really a shame that this kind of stuff can happen, but the reality (that I'd hope most people understand) is that not 100% of the popul…

That's a step few people will bother to take, just as is the case with most vacation rentals. A credit card is enough ID for even commercial operations.

Her only real mistake was to leave her "passport, cash, credit card...grandmother’s jewelry...camera, iPod, an old laptop, and my external backup drive...birth certificate and social security card" in the apartment. It seems they were locked in a closet, but removing them from the house altogether would have taken a lot of the sting out of this unfortunate experience.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#32

Post by jamesteow »

go37pi wrote: post #30
AndyJPartridge wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One faces the posibility of those horrible loses each day, but obviously you are increasing your risk with AirBnB. But a nutter having your key is just a minor detail if entry is desired; and with AirBnB at least you get a cash reward for your risk.

You're right about the financial expected value, but I think you might be disregarding the trust aspect of the transaction, which I think was why Airbnb was so successful. Buying into the brand reinforces a particularly optimistic world view that people who are likely to use Airbnb enjoy. Plus, when you are giving your key to another person, the risk is not just monetary, but the additional emotional risk of just bei…

Exactly. People (including myself who used the service) felt that it was more legit than Craigslist when in fact, they have the same financial protection.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#33

Post by mlinsey »

jmjerlecki wrote: post #12

This post is in the right direction and I applaud Brian for stepping up, but this has taken too long for this to happen. If you note in EJ's post, she states that she would not be compensated for any damages and she was on the hook. Airbnb didn't step up to the plate until it was posted on Techcrunch. This has been simmering since June and they really could have gotten ahead of this and handled this entirely differen…

this has taken too long for this to happen. If you note in EJ's post, she states that she would not be compensated for any damages and she was on the hook. Airbnb didn't step up to the plate until it was posted on Techcrunch.

Is this really the case? EJ's post from June says this in the fifth paragraph: "They have offered to help me recover emotionally and financially". I cannot find anything in her original post that contradicts that. Can you point me to a paragraph number and sentence where you are getting the info that she originally would not be compensated?

The only source for the idea that EJ would not be compensated seems to be the original TC article from today. That was sourced from a company spokesperson who was citing policy, and was contradicted by Chesky's post here. Given the original blog post, it seems a lot more probable that this is a detail that TC (and Airbnb's spokesperson) got wrong, not that Airbnb changed their mind.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#34

Post by hullo »

mcantelon wrote: post #15

None of this sounds like it addresses the underlying problem: you're relying on them to vet the guest yet you're the one with the most to lose if they get it wrong.

Well, yes and no. For the sake of argument, let's accept that AirBnb is worth $1.3 billion dollars. I can only imagine that a large portion of that valuation is based on the potential upside that would come with becoming a consumer success and disrupting the hotel industry etc etc etc.

What portion of that valuation will disappear if the perception that AirBnb "isn't safe" takes hold? To make the math easier, let's guess 10% (although it's potentially 100%). 1.3 billion / 10 is 130 million dollars, which is probably much more than the value of the stuff in your house. All of which is a long way of saying that AirBnb is actually heavily incentivized to get this right.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#35

Post by rguzman »

latch wrote: post #4

There continues to be a major point of conflict between EJ's concerns and AirBnB's position. In fact, the point of conflict is actually within AirBnB's safety policies itself: 1 - Private messaging that lets users learn about each other prior to booking, without revealing private information 2 - Reservation system that allows hosts to accept or decline guests, giving them complete control over who books their space I…

Not only are 1) and 2) inconsistent, but rejecting a booking negatively impacts your search-rankings and they warn you loudly about it. I've certainly been in the situation where I wanted to decline a booking, but the search ranking penalty made me re-consider.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#36

Post by AndyJPartridge »

jamesteow wrote: post #32
go37pi wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right about the financial expected value, but I think you might be disregarding the trust aspect of the transaction, which I think was why Airbnb was so successful. Buying into the brand reinforces a particularly optimistic world view that people who are likely to use Airbnb enjoy. Plus, when you are giving your key to another person, the risk is not just monetary, but the additional emotional risk of just bei…

Exactly. People (including myself who used the service) felt that it was more legit than Craigslist when in fact, they have the same financial protection.

With respect, your misconception on safety levels are not a fault of AirBnB. It's our trusting nature.

I've read lots of the discussions about this today, and I think I'm the first to post this:

http://www.airbnb.com/home/safety

It is no better or worse than Craigslist, as humans are involved. Some humans always screw things up for the rest of us.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#37

Post by jbondeson »

AndyJPartridge wrote: post #27
physcab wrote: post #19

I want to believe that people are fundamentally good as well and there is definitely evidence that supports that. But this incident has left a bad taste in my mouth, and their response hasn't made me feel any better. It's not like Ebay where if you have a bad experience, your loss is stemmed to the material good you have given away. On AirBnb, the potential harm in the worst case for both a guest and a host are massi…

One faces the posibility of those horrible loses each day, but obviously you are increasing your risk with AirBnB. But a nutter having your key is just a minor detail if entry is desired; and with AirBnB at least you get a cash reward for your risk.

I know you were being glib here and not completely serious but I'm still going to respond to the general sentiment.

Every day we do take risks by stepping out the front door, however the communities we belong to institute safeguards to help mitigate these numerous risks. We hire police officers, firemen, and construct hospitals. Living in these communities is not free, we pay taxes to support this.

AirBnB is a virtual community that also collects taxes: 3% to be exact. However, they do nothing but mitigate the risks of funds transfer, and in other cases increase the risk by handcuffing attempts at vetting.

So, yes, while I do face these horrible possibilities every day I know that the communities I belong to are attempting to minimize them -- can you honestly say that about AirBnB's community?

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#38

Post by spolsky »

I can't stop thinking that this was a top-secret hit job by some shady character working for the hotel industry looking to derail AirBnB's next fund-raising round. Heck, if Nixon could do it, why couldn't The American Hotel & Lodging Association?

So my question to you is: am I quite paranoid or merely rather paranoid?

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#39

Post by statictype »

physcab wrote: post #19

I want to believe that people are fundamentally good as well and there is definitely evidence that supports that. But this incident has left a bad taste in my mouth, and their response hasn't made me feel any better. It's not like Ebay where if you have a bad experience, your loss is stemmed to the material good you have given away. On AirBnb, the potential harm in the worst case for both a guest and a host are massi…

It's not like Ebay where if you have a bad experience, your loss is stemmed to the material good you have given away

If you're going to play the rape-or-death card, then why not also say that an EBay package you receive could contain a bomb or anthrax spores?

Personally speaking, AirBnB always baffled me, even before this incident. I would never have given my home for others to use and would find it weird to use that of a strangers' when travelling, but that's just me.

Other people clearly find value in it.

I'm surprised that this incident would have left a bad taste in your mouth, in the same way that I'm surprised when people who store super-sensitive information in Dropbox find out that maybe its not a secure bank vault.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#40

Post by chime »

georgemcbay wrote: post #20
axiom wrote: post #13

Can we agree that the host here is at least partially responsible for what happened? First, let me say that what happened was horrible, and the person who did the damage should go to jail for a long long time. AirBnB should cover the cost of all damages as a gesture of goodwill. It's really a shame that this kind of stuff can happen, but the reality (that I'd hope most people understand) is that not 100% of the popul…

"She literally left a key for a total stranger to her home, without doing ANY due-diligence. Someone basically sent her an email, and she said "okey-dokey, here's the keys, have fun."" I don't use Airbnb from either side, but isn't the big problem here that you can't do due dilligence? As I understand it (and again, as a non-user maybe I am wrong), Airbnb pretty much blocks you from knowing too much about your tempor…

I agree with you. I recently took a weekend vacation by the beach and did my very best to use AirBnB. The fact that email is the only way to communicate with the host made it really difficult for me to get a good feel for the place I was renting. I want to use AirBnB, I really do. But preventing me from typing my phone# in the text field really annoyed me. I don't think that renting a place is like buying an item on eBay where it is best that the seller and buyer not bypass the entire auction mechanism.

I don't mind at all if AirBnB gets a slice of my money and in fact I prefer to pay them than a random person. However, I want to talk to the host on the phone before I agree to anything. You can't express friendliness and warmth textually (or at least most people can't) but it is very easy to pick up on the tone over phone. In the end, I found a wonderful beach cottage via vrbo.com. If vrbo had a website like AirBnB, they would get my money every time. I understand the financial mechanism is very different on both sites but seriously, AirBnB, let me talk to potential hosts before I book anything - I will even pay a fee to become a premium-phone-enabled-renter.

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