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For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

economist.com

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Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#31

Post by willio58 »

BrissyCoder wrote: post #25
ram_rar wrote: post #16

Right now companies havent figured out how to handle this situation and are playing along. I'm sure, sooner or later tides will turn and either you'll be roped into coming to office or take a pay cut for working remotely. So enjoy while it last!!

I don't get your reasoning on why you expect that people will have to take a pay cut for working remotely. Would have thought it would be the opposite. Office space, hardware and energy cost a bit.

This will only happen at companies that required people to live in extremely expensive areas like silicone valley. I’m not in that situation, but I’d quit immediately and go somewhere else. For example Google is doing this, there is no reason Google needs to save money on these developers. None at all.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#32

Post by hiddencache »

BrissyCoder wrote: post #25
ram_rar wrote: post #16

Right now companies havent figured out how to handle this situation and are playing along. I'm sure, sooner or later tides will turn and either you'll be roped into coming to office or take a pay cut for working remotely. So enjoy while it last!!

I don't get your reasoning on why you expect that people will have to take a pay cut for working remotely. Would have thought it would be the opposite. Office space, hardware and energy cost a bit.

Managers cite efficiency losses in terms of communication, team building, training new staff, and idea generation in general.

Not my arguments, just what I've seen written...

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#33

Post by ab_testing »

busterarm wrote: post #11
adrianN wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are less volatile industries with well paying jobs?

Plumbing. Electrical. HVAC. Roofing. The average age of trade workers is over 50. Carpentry is in extreme demand but the pay hasn't caught up yet -- eventually it will. Demand already far exceeds supply. Edit: I like how I gave a perfectly truthful answer to the question and I'm being downvoted to oblivion. A lot of contempt for tradespeople, I guess. I went to high school with people who became electricians and they…

I don't doubt your anecdotal data. However there is a difference between being a trades worker and running a business. Usually running a business means managing a team of trades workers and that comes with it own set of headaches. If you look at the BLS data on median income for traders workers, the data is not so impressive ~60K for plumbers, electricians and other workers.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#34

Post by adrianN »

busterarm wrote: post #22
adrianN wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm, I think those industries are subject to boom and bust cycles in construction.

In fact, no. Those are specifically the trades that always have work and don't depend on new construction. "General Construction" is very boom&bust. There are also many specialties available in plumbing and electrical that demand top dollar. The average electrician where I'm at in the US working for themselves is making $80-150 an hour (market depending) without any specialties involved. Related: https://www.youtube.…

I mean take roofing for example. Of course roofs need replacement eventually. But after a construction boom the fraction of new roofs is high, so those don't need replacement for a while. Wouldn't that mean that roofers have less work?

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#36

Post by kook_throwaway »

busterarm wrote: post #11
adrianN wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are less volatile industries with well paying jobs?

Plumbing. Electrical. HVAC. Roofing. The average age of trade workers is over 50. Carpentry is in extreme demand but the pay hasn't caught up yet -- eventually it will. Demand already far exceeds supply. Edit: I like how I gave a perfectly truthful answer to the question and I'm being downvoted to oblivion. A lot of contempt for tradespeople, I guess. I went to high school with people who became electricians and they…

I was roommates with a heavy equipment mechanic in his >$500k house. He barely spoke English and when his company got terminated from their contract on a tunnel he was rehired the same week for a $40k pay raise. He quit that job for another $30k raise to work for a different company on the same tunnel project a week after that.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#37

Post by BrissyCoder »

chrismorgan wrote: post #15

> Share of Hacker News job postings mentioning “remote” and “onsite” I’d be interested in another chart considering all postings, not just ones that mention “remote” or “onsite”. I expect the trend would still be visible, but not quite so significant.

Tend to agree. I'm not looking to move but for what it's worth whenever a recruiter HR messages me on LinkedIn I make it very clear that I won't consider jobs that aren't fully remote - just putting that energy out into the universe.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#38

Post by phil-martin »

This is unfortunately not the experience I have had in Australia.

I looked into a few jobs earlier in the year, and spoke with a few recruiters. Despite the initial remote-friendly job description, it ended up being full time or more, with 1 day work from home a week.

I look forward to when remote working is common, with internal processes and culture adapted to suit multiple modes of working.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#39

Post by code_duck »

BrissyCoder wrote: post #25
ram_rar wrote: post #16

Right now companies havent figured out how to handle this situation and are playing along. I'm sure, sooner or later tides will turn and either you'll be roped into coming to office or take a pay cut for working remotely. So enjoy while it last!!

I don't get your reasoning on why you expect that people will have to take a pay cut for working remotely. Would have thought it would be the opposite. Office space, hardware and energy cost a bit.

It sounded unfair and summer opportunistic to me at first too, since like you say, employers could be saving a lot of money by having you use your house as an office.

The rationale that Google is citing is that they pay based on location. They say remote workers will make the same as office workers in the same city, which sounds reasonable.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#40

Post by busterarm »

ab_testing wrote: post #33
busterarm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plumbing. Electrical. HVAC. Roofing. The average age of trade workers is over 50. Carpentry is in extreme demand but the pay hasn't caught up yet -- eventually it will. Demand already far exceeds supply. Edit: I like how I gave a perfectly truthful answer to the question and I'm being downvoted to oblivion. A lot of contempt for tradespeople, I guess. I went to high school with people who became electricians and they…

I don't doubt your anecdotal data. However there is a difference between being a trades worker and running a business. Usually running a business means managing a team of trades workers and that comes with it own set of headaches. If you look at the BLS data on median income for traders workers, the data is not so impressive ~60K for plumbers, electricians and other workers.

People in the trades are some of the most likely group of people to go into business for themselves. Doing a few years of work and then going out on your own is the norm.
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