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GitHub’s engineering team has moved to Codespaces

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Re: GitHub’s engineering team has moved to Codespaces

#631

Post by gmueckl »

maccard wrote: post #532
gmueckl wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are really simple ways to play dirty with APIs like making sure that they are incomplete in subtle and inconvenient ways like leaving out some of the metadata. Hypothetical example: make it impossible to query tags on issues. You'd still be able to do most things through the API, but if you have a workflow that's heavily dependent on tags, the data is effectively siloed.

So to be clear, the proof the GitHub is extending is a hypothetical example of an incomplete api that is not based on an open standard?

I didn't want to prove anything. I just pointed out what is possible.

Re: GitHub’s engineering team has moved to Codespaces

#632

Post by TeMPOraL »

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #573
bogwog wrote: post #358

Serious question: if I were to use this, would Microsoft collect analytics on me (code written, keystrokes, mouse movements, sleep/work schedule, productivity metrics, etc) and monetize that data by using it to build some AI product like Copilot, or build a productivity dashboard so managers can fire people for not being productive enough (like Xsolla did), use it to serve me ads, or do some stupid/irresponsible/unet…

If your employer decides that they need such an analytics dashboard, one that is spying on every keystroke, then they will have one. That one doesn't depend on you working on a laptop, or in a remote environment - the company owns and is administrating that laptop, and they can install everything they regard as necessary. Therefore the real question is if Codespaces is helping to get your job done; I guess that depen…

Don't underestimate trivial inconveniences[0]. There's a difference between being able to install employee surveillance in principle, and having it handed to you on a golden platter.

Some manager may toy with an idea of getting IT to install and manage monitoring software, but ultimately reject it as not worth the cost. But if the company starts to work over something like Codespaces - even if only for purely technical reasons - then suddenly they'll find themselves having a dashboard for free, and for sure they'll start using it.

--

[0] - https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/reitXJgJXFzKpdKyd/beware-tri...

Re: GitHub’s engineering team has moved to Codespaces

#633

Post by hoseja »

_jal wrote: post #542
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope that if this happens, DPAs bring the hammer down on everyone involved (both MS and companies using it) in a useful timeframe (i.e. before it has become socially acceptable because "everyone is doing it" and there are no consequences).

Everyone is already doing it. Not to engineers yet, but look at Amazon warehouses. These things are always deployed against the least powerful first.

It's also easiest to implement in the warehouse.

Re: GitHub’s engineering team has moved to Codespaces

#634

Post by TeMPOraL »

baby wrote: post #621
bogwog wrote: post #358

Serious question: if I were to use this, would Microsoft collect analytics on me (code written, keystrokes, mouse movements, sleep/work schedule, productivity metrics, etc) and monetize that data by using it to build some AI product like Copilot, or build a productivity dashboard so managers can fire people for not being productive enough (like Xsolla did), use it to serve me ads, or do some stupid/irresponsible/unet…

Top comments always have to be so negative every time there’s something cool on the front page…

That's because people here have grown up and see the world for what it is, how products like these play out, how incentives around them are structured. Most of the cool things like this are bait.

Seriously. It takes extreme naivety to take a SaaS business at face value today. Patterns of exploitation are well-established and easy to spot. Once you see this a couple of times, including in offerings you got so excited about - or worse, you get burned by them personally - it's hard to be anything but bitchy about tech.

The comments may be negative, but the bigger problem is that they're also not wrong.

Re: GitHub’s engineering team has moved to Codespaces

#635

Post by theshrike79 »

perryizgr8 wrote: post #616
JoeQuery wrote: post #243

I've developed on a remote server for about 8 years now. It started when I was a contractor and my machine was simply too slow to run the project I was assigned. I did not have the money for a new laptop, but I could afford the ~55/month for a dedicated server with 32GB and 4cores. I have worked that way ever since. I've been fortunate enough to work at companies that run their own VM infrastructure which allow me to…

> remote server for about 8 years now > I did not have the money for a new laptop > I could afford the ~55/month for a dedicated server with 32GB and 4cores Umm... you spent 55 12 8 = ~$5000 over 8 years. You could have bought 3 top-specced laptops. A good $1500 laptop will last at least 2-3 years. You would also get some resale value out of your laptop when you upgrade.

But the thing is, if I have $60 extra money on my account RIGHT NOW, how long would I need to save to get a laptop?

I can get a $55/mo dedicated server right now and code for 30 days straight and get paid. Or I can save for X months for a laptop.

Also the server price will most likely go down over the years or I could get a beefier one for the same money. The laptop will depreciate every day.

Re: GitHub’s engineering team has moved to Codespaces

#636

Post by JohnL4 »

arnvald wrote: post #491

Huh, so there we are again: * you write code in VSCode (developed by Microsoft) * using Codespaces (created by Microsoft) * in TypeScript (developed by Microsoft) * downloading libraries from NPM (owned by Microsoft) * pushing your code to Github (owned by Microsoft) * to run it on Azure (by Microsoft) and on top of that you read email about the launch of a new feature in Outlook and celebrate it with your colleagues…

But Google is the problem.

Re: GitHub’s engineering team has moved to Codespaces

#637

Post by theshrike79 »

tpoacher wrote: post #338
JoeQuery wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. I used a combination of mosh, byobu, gnu screen, and vim. These days I use vscodes remote development setup more often.

Mosh sounds interesting! Thanks for mentioning!

On the front page right now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28150287 =)

Re: GitHub’s engineering team has moved to Codespaces

#638

Post by TeMPOraL »

wuschel wrote: post #630
manigandham wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have the same rights to privacy when performing your job for a corporation, and everyone else is already doing it in other industries. Just this week was a big story about how a call center provider (used by Apple and others) was forcing employees to install cameras in their own homes to monitor their remote work: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/big-tech-call-center-...

I am not sure what is possible in other jurisdictions such as the EU, but I have not seen something like this so far.

I'm not sure about individual member states, but there was this story in Germany the other day:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/gdpr-german-laptop-retailer-fi...

€10M fine for keeping employees under video surveillance for no good reason.

This is an example showing that there are limits to employee surveillance on-site.

Re: GitHub’s engineering team has moved to Codespaces

#639

Post by rhn_mk1 »

grepfru_it wrote: post #572
amatecha wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know how they added Github CLI[0], right? There may be a time where you must use Github CLI instead of a "standard" git client to interact with Github projects. That would be the "extinguish" phase. Right now they have embraced and are extending (such as with Github CLI). [0] https://cli.github.com/

If you wish to leverage the advanced features of github, the CLI gives you direct access rather than rolling your own api client. git will always be a first class citizen at GIThub.. but how do you open, close, or comment on PRs with a standard git client? Edit: The last part came across a bit snarky, but I’m trying to stimulate the thought process. Such as leveraging GitHub Actions to automate all aspects of PRs via…

That sounds very much like the "extend" part of the process.

Re: GitHub’s engineering team has moved to Codespaces

#640

Post by theshrike79 »

JohnL4 wrote: post #636
arnvald wrote: post #491

Huh, so there we are again: * you write code in VSCode (developed by Microsoft) * using Codespaces (created by Microsoft) * in TypeScript (developed by Microsoft) * downloading libraries from NPM (owned by Microsoft) * pushing your code to Github (owned by Microsoft) * to run it on Azure (by Microsoft) and on top of that you read email about the launch of a new feature in Outlook and celebrate it with your colleagues…

But Google is the problem.

* VSCode doesn't spy on me (metrics can be disabled)

* Codespaces don't spy on me (much)

* Typescript doesn't spy on me

* NPM doesn't spy on me

* Github doesn't spy on me

* Azure doesn't spy on me

Google does. It's literally their main revenue stream.

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