Monday was my 46th birthday and likely my last (2013) • Hacker News Board

Re: Monday was my 46th birthday and likely my last (2013)

#91

Post by busterarm » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 4:42 AM UTC

User23 wrote: post #50

busterarm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He was in a medicare-accepting full time care facility which was extremely dirty, smelly, and full of workers who honestly didn't give a fuck, and they expressed this in many overt and subtle ways. The only comfort he got was from his family who visited every day to speak and read to him. This is a very uncomfortable reality about our care system and the way our society is structured in general. Nobody deserves thi…

This is one of the more obvious reasons to have as many children as possible and to raise them as well as possible. Fact is otherwise nobody is liable to care about you when you’re old and even if one of your peer friends does they’ll be in the same boat. It doesn’t matter how much money you have, because without someone to actively advocate for you it won’t go well.

Indeed, but our society seems to be fighting this notion hard.

Re: Monday was my 46th birthday and likely my last (2013)

#92

Post by morticiansflame » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 4:45 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #45

xvector wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The endgame (a few hundred years from now) would be virtualizing consciousnesses and distributing them across space so only a cosmic disaster could end a being.

You've arrived at heaven and the afterlife through non-religious ways.

There's an episode of Black Mirror for this - "San Junipero".

Re: Monday was my 46th birthday and likely my last (2013)

#93

Post by mehwoot » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 4:51 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #47

GreenWatermelon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather we change our view on death. Death has always been a constant since life became a thing. Even the mightiest stars in the skies are destined to die one day. After you die, your consciousness fades, and so do all your desires and regrets. To me, death is the ultimate respite.

That's fair; you are of course welcome to your own views on life and death. But I don't think there's a "we", here. Some people are accepting of death, and aren't interested in the idea of immortality, or even a significant amount of life extension. Others... are. Neither viewpoint is wrong, or bad. I don't think I'd want to live forever, but I think the time we get is far too short. I want to see an end to scarcity…

Neither viewpoint is wrong, or bad

Actually I think trying to eliminate death (at least if we're talking about letting people live >1000 years or choose when they die) is extremely bad and will have awful, awful consequences.

You think inequality is bad now? Can you imagine what it will be like when people can amass power and fortunes for thousands of years? How progressive do you think our views on race and sex would be if there were still people voting who were 800 years old? Or science, for that matter (science progresses one funeral at a time, as they say). House prices are astronomically bad where I live... how bad will it be when houses are held forever?

Old age and death create the space for our lives to be young and free, albeit for a short glorious period. I don't doubt it will eventually happen, and the world will become a far more static, miserable place as humanity pushes endlessly forward in our quest to avoid pain and grab all we can for ourselves instead of trying to enjoy life for the ephemeral experience it is.

Re: Monday was my 46th birthday and likely my last (2013)

#94

Post by xvector » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 4:51 AM UTC

sriram_malhar wrote: post #26

xvector wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully it also starts us on a path of treating death as a problem to solve, so we can die on our own terms instead of being forced to do so by a cruel reality. https://www.sens.org/ https://www.lifespan.io/ https://www.buckinstitute.org/

My approach to death is this: I am an insignificant drop, and will eventually merge into an ocean of molecules, to be rearranged into other drops. In that sense, there is nothing to fear, nothing to solve. If the manner in which one is dying is painful, then I should have a means of getting to a quick end.

You won't merge into anything, you will become nothing. No rest, no respite, nothing. Your body might "merge", but that's irrelevant.

Your consciousness - who you are - will end, truly, once and for all. You will never again experience hopes, dreams, memories, or love. You won't experience anything at all for the rest of eternity.

Re: Monday was my 46th birthday and likely my last (2013)

#95

Post by xvector » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 4:52 AM UTC

morticiansflame wrote: post #92

jacquesm wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've arrived at heaven and the afterlife through non-religious ways.

There's an episode of Black Mirror for this - "San Junipero".

Definitely my favorite episode, and beautifully optimistic. I like how they flipped the script on the generic and easy "immortality bad" hot-take.

Re: Monday was my 46th birthday and likely my last (2013)

#96

Post by xvector » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 4:53 AM UTC

joelbluminator wrote: post #66

xvector wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully it also starts us on a path of treating death as a problem to solve, so we can die on our own terms instead of being forced to do so by a cruel reality. https://www.sens.org/ https://www.lifespan.io/ https://www.buckinstitute.org/

Its not really a problem to solve. Its a pretty much guaranteed end we can only delay by so much.

When we are looking at deaths on the cosmic timescales you're implying, we can return to that point. For now, our lifespans are pathetically short. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Re: Monday was my 46th birthday and likely my last (2013)

#97

Post by xvector » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 4:55 AM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #43

hallway_monitor wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure you don't just feel that way because you consider death an inevitability? I agree completely that fixing death from old age would fundamentally change people's worldviews and would indeed change what it means to be human. But that doesn't mean it's not a cause worth devoting effort to.

> But that doesn't mean it's not a cause worth devoting effort to. Why? Ultimately you need to address what is the meaning of life, and what is your purpose. I think if you offered immortality to me tomorrow I wouldn't take it.

> I think if you offered immortality to me tomorrow I wouldn't take it.

I think if we offered it to you on your deathbed, as you are seconds away from it, you would.

Re: Monday was my 46th birthday and likely my last (2013)

#98

Post by xvector » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 4:56 AM UTC

ljm wrote: post #31

xvector wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully it also starts us on a path of treating death as a problem to solve, so we can die on our own terms instead of being forced to do so by a cruel reality. https://www.sens.org/ https://www.lifespan.io/ https://www.buckinstitute.org/

Death isn't a problem to solve...it's just the end of what we know and the start of everything we don't. I don't know what comes after death but I'm not scared of it.

Alternatively, and more likely, (given our current understanding of the universe), it is the end of everything and the start of nothing.

Re: Monday was my 46th birthday and likely my last (2013)

#99

Post by DoreenMichele » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 4:56 AM UTC

xvector wrote: post #97

JackFr wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But that doesn't mean it's not a cause worth devoting effort to. Why? Ultimately you need to address what is the meaning of life, and what is your purpose. I think if you offered immortality to me tomorrow I wouldn't take it.

> I think if you offered immortality to me tomorrow I wouldn't take it. I think if we offered it to you on your deathbed, as you are seconds away from it, you would.

Only if it cured what ailed me. I would personally be skeptical of such an offer. I would think "Yeah. Sure. And live like this forever without relief or escape. No thanks, buddy."

Not everyone frames such problems the same.

Re: Monday was my 46th birthday and likely my last (2013)

#100

Post by xvector » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 5:00 AM UTC

mehwoot wrote: post #93

kelnos wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair; you are of course welcome to your own views on life and death. But I don't think there's a "we", here. Some people are accepting of death, and aren't interested in the idea of immortality, or even a significant amount of life extension. Others... are. Neither viewpoint is wrong, or bad. I don't think I'd want to live forever, but I think the time we get is far too short. I want to see an end to scarcity…

Neither viewpoint is wrong, or bad Actually I think trying to eliminate death (at least if we're talking about letting people live >1000 years or choose when they die) is extremely bad and will have awful, awful consequences. You think inequality is bad now? Can you imagine what it will be like when people can amass power and fortunes for thousands of years? How progressive do you think our views on race and sex woul…

1. These are problems to solve independently of death. Shitty governments and politics do not justify death. These problems absolutely aren't in the problem space of life extension to solve.

2. It is arguable that life and freedom are meaningless if we are doomed to lose everything we ever have and are in the end, after such a short amount of time.

3. "Enjoying life for the ephemeral experience it is" is something we do out of hard necessity. I'd take a bit less enjoyment as opposed to, well, not existing at all. Even then, enjoyment and long lives do not have to be mutually exclusive should we solve our problems in time.

Relying on death to solve problems with our government and politics is like relying on a nuclear bomb to heat your dinner. It'll work, it'll also cause immense pain and suffering.

We can and should solve these problems in a separate thread. Alternatively phrased, if power was already stagnated and concentrated, and you had a button to start killing ~100 million random people a year to "solve" this problem, it would be insane to press it. We must find alternative solutions.