The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed • Hacker News Board

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#191

Post by NathanKP » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 1:16 AM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #65

patrickod wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you have rather AirBnB done in this situation? Do you not think it's a little unreasonable that AirBnB would have to take on the role of the insurer here ? People should know the risks they're taking in letting a complete stranger into their house without even meeting in person. Just because someone found you through AirBnB doesn't mean you can take the risk for granted. You're still letting a complete str…

> What would you have rather AirBnB done in this situation? Make their user whole with a big fat wad of cash that approaches the value lost in the described crime. Relocation assistance. Go completely above and beyond. > Do you not think it's a little unreasonable that AirBnB would have to take on the role of the insurer here ? In general? Sure. Here? Absolutely not unreasonable. This is the absolute worst case scena…

I really don't understand why the victim would say that it is not possible to contact people before the transaction, because as a user of AirBNB I have talked to hosts before and exchanged details about who I am, including full name, location, age, etc. The hosts had enough information to look me up on FB, find and read my blog, my HN posts, and whatever else they felt like looking up about me on the internet.

It is completely possible to vet your guests before accepting them. Now granted I do agree that it would be very kind for AirBNB to compensate her for the damages she suffered, but I do not feel like AirBNB should be held responsible as if they caused this to happen, because they certainly didn't prevent her from looking up this rogue guest before accepting the transaction.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#192

Post by code_duck » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 1:29 AM UTC

I can't imagine leaving my house for a week, to rent it out to complete strangers, with all of my possessions in it. I'd be afraid they'd rifle through m belongings and perhaps steal some, or even something like this would happen. Maybe they'll copy the keys and come back and rob the place three weeks later. How would one be sure? All in all, being an AiBnB host is a questionable enterprise.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#193

Post by jcc80 » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 1:44 AM UTC

codyrobbins wrote: post #145

danilocampos wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conveniently, you fail to address the point upon which this whole issue is predicated: " You can't talk to guests until the transaction is consummated. If that's so, it's on Airbnb to make sure that they're not sending a dangerous creep into your arms." No one thinks anyone from Airbnb blew up her home, dude. I'm not paid well enough to know if this meets the standard of tortious negligence. Yet it was negligence. Ha…

Well, you haven’t addressed any of my points, but that’s fine. To answer your question, just because the transaction was consummated doesn’t mean she had to let the guy into her house. If the dude was suspicious or ungoogleable, she could have called Airbnb and explained the situation or she could have simply not left her key. Instead she just got on an airplane without thinking about it. That’s not Airbnb’s fault. A…

"Just because Y Combinator funded it doesn’t mean it’s magical."

It doesn't? jk. But seriously, if you mention airbnb to an average person, say anyone in my family on the east coast they haven't heard of it. So, airbnb isn't even big enough to have the problems craigslist has had with scams...but, this is just the start.

Once airbnb gets bigger there will be more of these stories. Someone will build up a rating by renting a few low priced places and then just completely rob a more expensive place.

I guess they should have seen this coming but now it's time to accept they are getting big enough where the common criminal will look to exploit the service. "You mean I just rent a few places and then some rich person will give me the keys to their place and I can take whatever I want? Awesome!"

I mean it's terrible, but I think we can all imagine it's possible someone using airbnb to rent a room in their home getting killed by the renter.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#194

Post by mattmanser » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 1:45 AM UTC

ajju wrote: post #90

arepb wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an insurance company won't write a policy for it, you probably shouldn't be doing it.

If everyone followed this rule, there would be very little innovation, none of it disruptive.

I found this very glib, while we may mock insurance for certain things there are professionals in that industry.

If an insurance company specialising in unconventional insurance don't think they can make money out of a premium, that does actually say something pretty insightful about the risk you're taking.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#195

Post by learc83 » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 1:47 AM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #102

danilocampos wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would you have rather AirBnB done in this situation? Make their user whole with a big fat wad of cash that approaches the value lost in the described crime. Relocation assistance. Go completely above and beyond. > Do you not think it's a little unreasonable that AirBnB would have to take on the role of the insurer here ? In general? Sure. Here? Absolutely not unreasonable. This is the absolute worst case scena…

No, the worst-case scenario would be that guest copies keys, returns, and rapes and kills the owner/occupant. Remember: once you've allowed physical access to your resources (computer, accounts, home, ...), all bets are off with regards to future security. AirBnB has a pretty intractable problem here. People aren't fundamentally vettable. It's an age-old problem. TSA, the HUAC, lie detectors, loyalty oaths, pledges,…

> No, the worst-case scenario would be that guest copies keys, returns, and rapes and kills the owner/occupant.

The keys problem is fairly easy. I don't have keys. I enter a 4 digit number to enter my house. Just install something like that and change the passcode when the guest leaves.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#196

Post by cnyc » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 1:49 AM UTC

Cushman wrote: post #81

jellicle wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As was pointed out before, it's not possible to get insurance for this - homeowner's insurance specifically disclaims damage from renters, and it's generally not legal to rent your premises like this unless you comply with all the hotel rules, so AirBnb can't take out insurance either. All they can do is self-insure, and if they start paying out, people will realize "Hey, I can get a new TV if I let my friend come an…

I don't see what they stand to lose if they take the same stance as homeowner insurers do— if you file a police report, they'll pretty much take your word for it. In fact they have an even better guarantee, since they know (ideally...) exactly who the perpetrator was. They're not giving you the money to replace your stuff, they're lending it to you until they can recover it from the criminal. If the person who you cl…

Ha, clearly you've never been robbed. Even if they know who the perp is, there is very little chance you will receive your items back unless they catch him down the street running with it.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#197

Post by lclaude01 » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 1:50 AM UTC

Ebay had the same kind of customer nightmare cases in their early days and still are in business today.

The following news from March 09, 2001

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/09/business/3-men-are-charged... ‎

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#198

Post by barrkel » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 1:52 AM UTC

VladRussian wrote: post #175

barrkel wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That statement doesn't seem based in logic: it doesn't follow. Lots of things are illegal in different countries, but that doesn't stop legitimate businesses operating in countries where such things are legal. For example, online gambling is illegal in the US, but that doesn't stop legitimate (US-headquartered) credit card companies dealing with online gambling companies in the UK. Also, if it were indeed the case th…

>For example, online gambling is illegal in the US, but that doesn't stop legitimate (US-headquartered) credit card companies dealing with online gambling companies in the UK. you're talking about the things you don't know about. The US processors can't legally process payments coded for gambling (some gambling operators code the transactions as "groceries", etc... - this is how the things still sometimes can fly und…

You seem to have misread my analogy.

I'm talking about US headquartered companies like Visa and MasterCard processing transactions for UK customers of UK (and Irish) online gambling companies; I do know about this, not least because I have an account on paddypower.com funded from major credit card companies like Visa and MasterCard.

The analogy is with insurance companies dealing with a business which is not legal in some states. That should not stop them dealing with the business in states where it is legal.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#199

Post by cnyc » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 1:54 AM UTC

lr wrote: post #162

jdminhbg wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The hotel industry is regulated for the same reason taxis are regulated." Yes -- to drive up prices for the cartels who control entry into the market.

Yes, that is partially true. However, the major reason is safety and liability. I have spent quite a bit of time overseas, and jumping in some random car of questionable roadworthiness, with an equally questionable driver, is not really something that the average citizen should have to deal with on a regular basis. If you don't want hotels or taxis regulated, then perhaps the same could be said for all businesses, an…

Well put.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#200

Post by prawn » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 2:04 AM UTC

tc wrote: post #21

> I spoke to Airbnb about EJ’s situation. They won’t reimburse her for damages This is bad news. They're going to backtrack on this. The sooner they do it, the better for them politically. I understand the problems of setting a precedent. And there really is no getting around the fact that the hosts do have the final responsibility for screening travelers (and travelers for screening hosts). But rightly or wrongly, t…

I'm not even sure that the precedent it'd create is a big issue. They'd be as much paying to shutdown angles of bad press as anything else and this is so volatile because it's the first big story along these lines for them, it's beyond a basic theft and it's emotionally written. Future incidents probably won't contain those three elements.

Down the track, they can say "Sorry, that other time was a once-off, we have many T&C/suggestions that cover what's happened" and the victim is going to have to be unnaturally persistent with the press to create a story this damaging.