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YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

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Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#421

Post by Nekhrimah »

syshum wrote: post #250
kube-system wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he meant that "cloth masks aren't good enough " he could have said that. But he's a senator. His statement was a dog whistle to his base. They're not looking for an argument that people should be wearing N95s, they want to discredit all masking. The word "prevent" is a red herring -- nothing is 100% -- the goal is to decrease infection, not prevent it.

I am pretty sure a large number of people on "your side" (for the record I am on Rand's side on this) want to prevent it We have evidence of this First you said "2 weeks to flatten the curve" we did that, and flattened the curve hospitals were saved ... but you were not appeased then you said "a few months to reduce the deaths" we did that and death rate dropped... but you were not appeased Then you said "a few more…

> complete eradication of COVID which by all expert account is impossible.

Several countries succeeded in elimination of community transmission, some more than once. Sadly, global coordination is just never going to allow for that at scale.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#422

Post by lupire »

version_five wrote: post #290
natural219 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

mass civil disobedience against COVID restrictions is not only awesome, it a very explicit and central civic value of the American political mythology. I can't emphasize enough how bizarre and soviet-esque that this is even on the table as a contentious issue these days.

I see you'd been here a lot longer than I have so you know you're fighting a lost battle. I am surprised how tech folks, that I always thought had a libertarian bent, have gone full on religious conformist due to covid. I like to read HN for the tech discussions and have a bad habit of getting drawn in to these silly religious things. All I can say is I hope the mainstream extremist view here is not representative of…

Just because Eric Raymond (who is more famous for his mouth than for his technical achievements) is a libertarian, and billionaires are libertarian, doesn't mean techies are in general.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#423

Post by __blockcipher__ »

srinivgp wrote: post #314
nickthemagicman wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's so much contradictory science on what you're claiming as ultimate truth. There's paper saying masks don't work there's paper saying masks do work. This is not a conclusive settled fact.

It's pretty conclusive. It's been conclusive for years and years, before COVID-19. There's no question at all that masks reduce infectiousness through the extremely obvious method of preventing some virus particles from going from one person to another, and also no question at all that probability of infection depends on number of virus particles around, and that viruses in general produce worse symptoms when the ini…

> It's been conclusive for years and years, before COVID-19

What? The overwhelming literature showed the exact opposite! That cloth masks did not prevent Influenza whatsoever.

I'd start with https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/ as a great review, and then take a look at some specific studies like this one:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/

> The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

> This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks.

> The control arm was ‘standard practice’, which comprised mask use in a high proportion of participants. As such (without a no-mask control), the finding of a much higher rate of infection in the cloth mask arm could be interpreted as harm caused by cloth masks, efficacy of medical masks, or most likely a combination of both.

---

The TL;DR is masks were never thought to work for community transmission of any respiratory virus, but they definitely don't work for SARS-2 where the preponderance of evidence points to aerosol transmission as the dominant transmission mode, which masks cannot help against and could theoretically worsen (by increasing the total quantity of aerosols released, and that's before looking at factors like them giving a false sense of security or requiring conversational partners to stand more closely together)

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#424

Post by nicetryguy »

quantumBerry wrote: post #361
nicetryguy wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ignorance is disgusting. A Darwin award awaits you.

Ignorance apparently is wearing a seatbelt because of your own personal decisions and risk analysis instead of some nitwit with a badge and a gun threatening to take what you've rightfully earned.

Ok. Say you do crash without wearing a seatbelt and smash your head against a windshield and sustain a head injury and survive. You're going to use additional medical resources and require months of physical therapy. You're going to drain the time and money of your family who has to now support your incapicated state. You may never be able to talk or walk again and become a drain on society for the rest of your days. The world has more people in it than you and your selfish decisions affect alot more people than just yourself.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#425

Post by mixmastamyk »

cvwright wrote: post #297
cogman10 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ineffective government mandates There's the bait and switch. You see, cloth masks aren't as effective as N95 mask, that doesn't mean they aren't effective. Nor does it mean that the government mandates to wear masks are ineffective. Frankly, you can look at nearly every other world government that issued similar guidance to the CDC and in all cases those countries did better than the US. Why? Because it wasn't a po…

You want to argue that Covid results are due to politics? Then maybe you can tell us why blue states NJ, NY, and MA have the highest death rates in the US?

Density gives a great boost to infection rate.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#426

Post by [deleted] »

chabes wrote: post #289
nickthemagicman wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your science and citations and reason don't matter on the internet. Rand Paul is a medical doctor and the person you're replying to is a musician. Yet the musician has watched the mainstream news media and therefore determines that their opinion is unquestionable. Actual scientific debate (which is a fundamental process of the scientific method)..... is not even remotely an option to these people.. You're talking to…

Rand Paul was an eye doctor.

[deleted]

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#427

Post by majormajor »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #15
corndoge wrote: post #3

> YouTube indicated that examples of the offending content in the video included the line: “Most of the masks you get over the counter don’t work. They don’t prevent infection.” > It also included the quote: “Trying to shape human behavior isn’t the same as following the actual science which tells us that cloth masks don’t work.” Regardless of what you think about YouTube's misinformation policy, I don't think this i…

> Seeing platforms control the narrative to this extent is truly fascinating. I never thought it would be as overt as it is. Remember the Hunter Biden's laptop story?

I remember the outlets screaming about censorship promising smoking guns REAL SOON NOW and then... quietly letting it fade away. Which isn't a convincing way to prove censorship or media manipulation. Looks more like they jumped the gun on some BS.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#428

Post by danuker »

kbelder wrote: post #302
rcurry wrote: post #251

If YouTube had been around in the 50s, they’d be banning kooks who claimed smoking wasn’t healthy for you.

In the 70s they'd be banning people who claimed the Earth wasn't cooling.

In the 1600s they'd ban people for claiming the Earth is not the center of the Solar System.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#429

Post by rootusrootus »

rajin444 wrote: post #374
handrous wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But of course Covid is killing people, so we should abandon centuries of liberal democratic tradition and hard fought freedoms to continue the great work we've done stopping it. I'm entirely confused by this sentiment. What's been abandoned? Serious question, I have no clue what people mean when they post stuff like this.

Even Biden admitted the moratorium is unconstitutional. Nobody seems to care.

Half the population had no problem trying to actually overthrow a constitutional election earlier this year and the previous President still claims it was all rigged. I'm not at all surprised that Biden's actions are not inspiring much outrage.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#430

Post by rglover »

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #390
rglover wrote: post #377

Easy fix for matters like this: citation. If you want to remove a video or other social media post, do so temporarily pending citation. Give people a way to back up their point of view with real data/research. If there is a conflict, put one of those warning banners beneath the video and link to the cited resource. Done. Otherwise, these companies look like oligarchs participating in low-key fascism.

The problem is that you still need someone to evaluate the research. I can find a citation that says thing X, and then a different citation that says !X. This is twice as much of a problem when public health authorities like the CDC will issue statements or guidance that is directly contrary to the clinical research, as has been done repeatedly in claiming that masks work to slow community transmission of SARS-2 desp…

Then an anarchist approach is preferred. Leave everything up, link to the citation, and be done with it.

The problem here is the drive to babysit people's minds. There's an arrogance of "who knows best" which creates this exact problem we're seeing. People need to put a bullet in their ego and shut up.

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