YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#171

Post by _-david-_ » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

dannyz wrote: post #82

Obviously nobody wants YouTube to be the arbiter of truth, but this whole situation has just become ridiculous. We have an elected senator spreading misinformation, perhaps willfully, perhaps not. All of the current evidence suggests that even cloth mask wearing reduces the virus spread ( https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118#sec-22 ). A cloth mask may not prevent infection for yourself, but if you are infec…

>Obviously nobody wants YouTube to be the arbiter of truth

This is not obvious. Many people are advocating for YouTube to ban what is currently considered misinformation.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#172

Post by kthejoker2 » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 7:34 PM UTC

Seems like YouTube is missing some kind of middle ground "this thing is controversial, and definitely one-sided, and therefore probably misleading" attachment that doesn't require strikes / account suspensions.

I appreciate the Senator attaching links, but there are plenty of counterpoints of evidence: I think merely presenting one side of the evidence is itself a sign of bad faith.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#173

Post by matz1 » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 7:49 PM UTC

andybak wrote: post #151

matz1 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes I am. I am reducing the chance of infection passing between us. No, you think you are doing good for me but reducing the chance of infection passing is not a concern for me at all so its not doing any good for me. >I think we probably won't get any further benefit from this discussion. I've lost patience with a lot of people over this. I find it slightly depressing that this has become the identity issue it has.…

> but reducing the chance of infection passing is not a concern for me at all You've lost me here. Really? Is this the part where I discover you have a completely different view on the whole topic and this discussion was pointless from the beginning?

>You've lost me here. Really?

Yes, among all other thing I concern about, reducing the chance of infection passing between us is the least of my concern.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against reducing the chance of infection. I support reducing the chance of infection but not with mask.

Because mask has more downside than its ability (if any) to reduce the chance of infection.

>Is this the part where I discover you have a completely different view on the whole topic and this discussion was pointless from the beginning?

I don't know about you but I do not found this discussion to be pointless

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#174

Post by 16bytes » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

gibba999 wrote: post #13

This seems exceptionally problematic. I absolutely think everyone should use masks, but the science is clearly not in on the effectiveness of cloth masks. It's a valid area of discussion. My own opinion is that everyone should use N95-equivalent masks, but others are entitled to their opinions too. We have democratic and civic processes to decide what should be mandated, what should be recommended, what should be dis…

Sure, it's a valid area of discussion. There are valid ways to critique the effectiveness of masks. To say, however, that:

"Most of the masks you get over the counter don’t work. That's because the virus particles can go right through them. That's still true. They don't work, there's no value. ... There's no signs to say they're preventing disease."

Simply discards the science and overall consensus without addressing it. There simply is no consensus that cloth masks do not work, at all, to any degree. Sen. Paul presents this as fact. That's misinformation.

The original video is here: https://rumble.com/vkyc0u-dr.-paul-addresses-dr.-faucis-mish...

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#175

Post by Covzire » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

chlodwig wrote: post #93

swashboon wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except they are effective. They are not as effective as a N95 mask but all scientific data shows they are still effective and reducing transmission rate in a population.

Cloth masks are effective in preventing covid in the same way that "the rhythm method is effective at preventing pregnancy." Which is to say it reduces the probability a small amount, but not nearly enough to justify a person treating it as an effective prophylactic. So it depends on what your definition of "effective" is, but it seems to me more like disinformation to call cloth masks or rhythm method "effective" th…

just how small is that small amount for a group of people in a small room for an hour at a time?

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#176

Post by api » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 9:59 PM UTC

threatofrain wrote: post #148

thaumasiotes wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seeing platforms control the narrative to this extent is truly fascinating. I never thought it would be as overt as it is. Remember the Hunter Biden's laptop story?

Rudy Giuliani and Tucker Carlson claimed to have first-hand access to the information; Tucker Carlson also said that he doesn't wish to reveal any further information because he didn't want to kick a man who was already down. I remember when people were saying The Intercept was censoring Glenn Greenwald at the publication he co-founded for not jumping on the Hunter Biden story. In retrospect they made the right call…

Since when did any political operative not kick someone from the other side when they were down? When they're down is when you stomp on their face.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#177

Post by Covzire » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:01 PM UTC

rsba wrote: post #55

corndoge wrote: post #3

> YouTube indicated that examples of the offending content in the video included the line: “Most of the masks you get over the counter don’t work. They don’t prevent infection.” > It also included the quote: “Trying to shape human behavior isn’t the same as following the actual science which tells us that cloth masks don’t work.” Regardless of what you think about YouTube's misinformation policy, I don't think this i…

I read one study that indicated an N95/KN95 mask was 10 times more effective than the regular (non) medical masks. I always thought it was unusual that the US government just didn’t mail KN95 masks to people, or widely distribute them at cost. And encourage their use. If something is 10 times less effective, it’s basically not even effective in comparison to what’s possible.

N95's for daily long-term use just isn't feasible. I've had a bunch of them from long before COVID19 for working with some auto detailing chemicals and I can't wear one for more than 10 minutes. Breathing becomes extremely difficult, maybe it would get better with time but it gets to a point where I constantly feel like I'm about to pass out.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#178

Post by treeman79 » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:01 PM UTC

corndoge wrote: post #3

> YouTube indicated that examples of the offending content in the video included the line: “Most of the masks you get over the counter don’t work. They don’t prevent infection.” > It also included the quote: “Trying to shape human behavior isn’t the same as following the actual science which tells us that cloth masks don’t work.” Regardless of what you think about YouTube's misinformation policy, I don't think this i…

Is the point to stop misinformation, or to silence people.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#179

Post by Thorentis » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:01 PM UTC

The cloth masks we were given at my workplace to wear in the office included an information slip in the packaging that included amongst cleaning instructions: "This is not a virus proof mask". Would I get banned from YouTube for reading out this verbatim?

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#180

Post by Thorentis » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:05 PM UTC

dantheman wrote: post #88

mark_l_watson wrote: post #44

Yeah, this is screwed-up. I have been vaccinated, and I always still wear a mask when shopping or otherwise indoors. But, I don't have the right to tell other people what to do, and YouTube does not have the right to "cancel" an elected senator who is both a doctor and has had covid-19. I think that the Senator is probably wrong about masks, but I support his right to speak his mind. Corporations that own public foru…

Youtube most definitely has the right to determine what they're going to show on their platform. You may not agree with their choices, but it's their right. It is easy and cheap to host videos online that can be easily linked to and viewed by anyone.

Welcome to another installment of "but they're a private company".

Who decides what rights private companies have? Do private companies have a right to dump waste into rivers? What about to fire employees because of their race? The rights of private companies are not transcendental - we define them. And if we decide as a society that deleting information from publishing platforms goes against the common good, then we can do that.