The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed • Hacker News Board

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#121

Post by efsavage » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 10:29 PM UTC

I own a summer home and I was genuinely considering using Airbnb next year. No more.

I can understand that they can't be too forthcoming, as people will trash their own place in hopes of a free remodel.

However, if law enforcement says this is a legit case and even caught a suspect, Airbnb should have had someone onsite with a check in their hands the next day. How much amazing free press would this have generated for, what, $25k? Even if they offered $5k to get her place livable again they could have demonstrated some integrity.

I don't know how much money they think they saved by betraying one of their business partners, but they should debit 5 or 10 years of my waterfront rental from that amount...

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#122

Post by danilocampos » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 10:30 PM UTC

codyrobbins wrote: post #111

danilocampos wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Clearly you’re not a business person if you wouldn’t care what the long-term implications of your company’s response to this were. Doing the right thing is more important than making money. I'm really glad I learned that before earning my business degree. I'll tell you a story. A couple of years ago, during the height of the financial crisis, I decided to quit a pretty safe job, move across the country, and focus f…

You’re patting yourself on the back for not selling a buggy app to people? That's a completely different situation than that in the story at hand. Airbnb worked precisely like it was supposed to—there were no bugs. It’s just that Airbnb is in no way supposed to prevent things like this from happening. If you do harm Again, you’re not addressing the simple fact that you’re working from the assumption that Airbnb itsel…

> there were no bugs.

The utter destruction of your home at the hands of a service that aims to help you monetize it is ipso facto a bug. Intent: create value. Result: destruction of value. Bug! It would be like a roach trap that helped roaches breed instead of killing them.

It's pretty simple. You can't talk to guests until the transaction is consummated. If that's so, it's on Airbnb to make sure that they're not sending a dangerous creep into your arms.

They failed in that task. If they want to be the "Ebay of spaces" then they need to provide for some basic level of safety and security.

It's okay that you and I have different value systems. They're incompatible, so we won't ever work together.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#123

Post by chailatte » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 10:32 PM UTC

wheels wrote: post #105

tc wrote: post #21

> I spoke to Airbnb about EJ’s situation. They won’t reimburse her for damages This is bad news. They're going to backtrack on this. The sooner they do it, the better for them politically. I understand the problems of setting a precedent. And there really is no getting around the fact that the hosts do have the final responsibility for screening travelers (and travelers for screening hosts). But rightly or wrongly, t…

I understand the problems of setting a precedent. I don't, actually. If the financial industry has taught us one thing, it's that you can insure anything . Let's assume that this is a very rare occurrence and that the total cost of making this right (say, tops $100k?) can be amortized over the profit being generated. I have a hard time understanding how it'd be rocket surgery to get something in place to handle these…

AirBnb is illegal in some of the states (and when states/hotel industry/cities get a wind of this story, it will probably be illegal in all the states), so I doubt any legitimate insurance companies will be handling this affair.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#124

Post by natural219 » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 10:32 PM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #92

dotBen wrote: post #8

When someone first told me about AirBnB I immediately dismissed it - just like Fred Wilson did. It fell in the group of ideas which I just find puzzling because the concept is totally alien to something I would want to do/buy/participate in. I don't get why anyone would want to rent out their couch or spare room to a transient stranger - even 'vetted' within a community (and we can see that vetted is very lose here)…

There's an increasing trend toward startups that disintermediate between traditional providers / purchasers. eBay and Craigslist were early instances. I'd count eTrade and other online trading startups as another instance. Blogs, generally, cut out the middleman in publishing. There's couchsurfing.com, various direct-lending startups, etc. And now AirBnB. Some of these are fairly low-risk activities. Craigslist, havi…

Thank you for a rational response to this. This is far from crippling for AirBnB; if some of these things haven't been worked out yet, then there's no reason they can't handle that.

The main damage will be from the publicity from this story. Now there's at least one cement example of somebody suffering greatly, that fear will penetrate anybody who uses this service from here on out.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#125

Post by jdminhbg » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 10:34 PM UTC

lr wrote: post #93

tc wrote: post #21

> I spoke to Airbnb about EJ’s situation. They won’t reimburse her for damages This is bad news. They're going to backtrack on this. The sooner they do it, the better for them politically. I understand the problems of setting a precedent. And there really is no getting around the fact that the hosts do have the final responsibility for screening travelers (and travelers for screening hosts). But rightly or wrongly, t…

Airbnb is a brokerage for what is probably an illegal activity in a lot of places. The hotel industry is regulated for the same reason taxis are regulated. I love the concept of Airbnb, but I just can't see how it can really make it in the long run. In this case, and in all others, Airbnb can not be responsible for this kind of stuff. Also, I highly doubt a homeowners policy is going to cover it because the person wa…

"The hotel industry is regulated for the same reason taxis are regulated."

Yes -- to drive up prices for the cartels who control entry into the market.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#126

Post by danilocampos » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 10:35 PM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #102

danilocampos wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would you have rather AirBnB done in this situation? Make their user whole with a big fat wad of cash that approaches the value lost in the described crime. Relocation assistance. Go completely above and beyond. > Do you not think it's a little unreasonable that AirBnB would have to take on the role of the insurer here ? In general? Sure. Here? Absolutely not unreasonable. This is the absolute worst case scena…

No, the worst-case scenario would be that guest copies keys, returns, and rapes and kills the owner/occupant. Remember: once you've allowed physical access to your resources (computer, accounts, home, ...), all bets are off with regards to future security. AirBnB has a pretty intractable problem here. People aren't fundamentally vettable. It's an age-old problem. TSA, the HUAC, lie detectors, loyalty oaths, pledges,…

Whoa.

Good point.

Shit just got real. Thanks for creeping me out even further.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#127

Post by estel » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 10:37 PM UTC

tc wrote: post #21

> I spoke to Airbnb about EJ’s situation. They won’t reimburse her for damages This is bad news. They're going to backtrack on this. The sooner they do it, the better for them politically. I understand the problems of setting a precedent. And there really is no getting around the fact that the hosts do have the final responsibility for screening travelers (and travelers for screening hosts). But rightly or wrongly, t…

The article has been updated with information from Brian Chesky where he clarifies that AirBNB have offered financial compensation and are trying to go "above and beyond".

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#128

Post by pak » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 10:38 PM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #78

prostoalex wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do we draw the line on decency? * Guest trashes the place, takes off with host's camera, iPod, laptop, jewelry - should AirBnb chip in for the cost? * Guest scratches a hardwood floor that's pretty expensive to fix - should AirBnb chip in for the cost? Or just buy a rug to cover it? What if it's some Mongolian oak that's custom-ordered at $5000 per sq.ft.? * Guest overflows the toilet, causing some floor damage…

I'm willing to go on record as saying the line is drawn at a sociopath willfully destroying someone's home and stealing their identity. It's pretty simple. If the user can't pre-screen and validate the guest's identity before renting, the onus is on Airbnb to ensure that they will not destroy your home . Besides, that's the only way this company can work at scale. Without trust in the system, who will use it?

Your reactions here are completely emotional. This is understandable, since the story is about a potentially emotional topic, but your response to it is not helpful for making a rational business decision.

Try to divorce yourself from the topic and read your reply again, realizing that you've set up an impossible standard and blanket-judged a complicated balance of liabilities as "pretty simple."

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#129

Post by mattdeboard » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 10:39 PM UTC

ForrestN wrote: post #37

I feel really bad for all involved, including AirBnB. They must feel awful, and this is obviously incredibly stressful. I agree with the consensus that they have thus far failed to use this as a marketing opportunity (a la Tylenol) or even to mitigate much of the damage. That said, I would be absolutely fascinated to learn how this is playing out. It would be a huge service to the community for someone to release a b…

Why on earth would you feel bad for AirBnB? They're not paying out any money, they're not taking any responsibility, and for that they are receiving a lot of negative reaction. If you feel bad because they are getting negative reaction, that is ridiculous. They are simply reaping what they've sewn in this instance.

They could be out there making this right but instead they're hiding in their offices. Not even any meaningful words. A check for some reasonable amount of money accompanied by some nice words would go a long way. Something as simple as, "We were appalled by this story. I wish words could convey how deeply the AirBnB team regrets that this crime occurred to one of our customers in the course of an exchange that was arranged through our service. Please accept this check that we hope will cover most of the physical damage to your belongings along with assurances that we will be looking into exactly what we can do to mitigate the possibility of this ever happening to anyone using our service."

Anyway, don't feel bad for them, that's ... misguided.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#130

Post by codyrobbins » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 10:40 PM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #122

codyrobbins wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re patting yourself on the back for not selling a buggy app to people? That's a completely different situation than that in the story at hand. Airbnb worked precisely like it was supposed to—there were no bugs. It’s just that Airbnb is in no way supposed to prevent things like this from happening. If you do harm Again, you’re not addressing the simple fact that you’re working from the assumption that Airbnb itsel…

> there were no bugs. The utter destruction of your home at the hands of a service that aims to help you monetize it is ipso facto a bug. Intent: create value. Result: destruction of value. Bug! It would be like a roach trap that helped roaches breed instead of killing them. It's pretty simple. You can't talk to guests until the transaction is consummated. If that's so, it's on Airbnb to make sure that they're not se…

The utter destruction of your home at the hands of a service that aims to help you monetize it is ipso facto a bug.

Again, Airbnb didn’t destroy her home. Are you under the impression that someone from Airbnb itself was the one staying at her house?

Intent: create value. Result: destruction of value. Bug!

You’re basically defining what you want the responsibilities of Airbnb’s service to be and then faulting them according to those responsibilities. But those are not Airbnb’s responsibilities. Again, Airbnb doesn’t claim to prevent things like this, therefore it’s not a bug.

If they want to be the "Ebay of spaces" then they need to provide for some basic level of safety and security

No they don’t. There will be business consequences for not doing so, but they don’t have to. They can define their service to be whatever they want it to be. As it currently stands, their service is not meant to prevent this from happening.

They're incompatible, so we won't ever work together.

This came through loud and clear the first time you patronizingly said it.