Google employees who work from home could lose money • Hacker News Board

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#681

Post by sciprojguy » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

lostcolony wrote: post #401

khuey wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably there's a lunch break in there.

If that includes an hour long lunch break, then the parent is basically just saying their employer pays them for their commute (especially since it sounds like they take the train or similar, and that probably is covered by their employer as well). Pretty sure most people who object to commutes do so because that time is uncompensated (and that people who demand them back in the office expect them in the office 8 hou…

Pretty sure you're wrong. If you drive, the commute can be a stressful waste of time.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#682

Post by eru » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 4:17 PM UTC

bigbillheck wrote: post #624

eru wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Directly: executives higher up. And at the highest level, the shareholders. The last is a bit tenuous because shareholder capitalism is more of an aspiration than reality. But that line of argument could only argue for extravagant CEO pay, not high pay for executive in general. (Especially since CEOs get a lot of their pay in shares, so are incentived to get the shareholders more money; eg by driving lower ranking ex…

> (Especially since CEOs get a lot of their pay in shares, so are incentived to get the shareholders more money; eg by driving lower ranking executives' pay down.) This would imply a coupling between corporate expenses and share price that is much tighter than I understand to be the case.

But if there's no coupling, than the argument for why ordinary workers' wages would fall also goes out the window.

You can't have it both ways.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#683

Post by eru » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 4:18 PM UTC

MichaelZuo wrote: post #678

eru wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though not necessarily per hour. (Ok, probably still per hour. But hours can be quite long.)

A super genius could most likely bargain for a pay/bonus cut and 40 hour weeks for 7 figures easily after a few years of demonstrated performance.

Yes. Though a super genius also gets special treatment at eg Google and other places.

So it's hard to say anything general about their compensation.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#684

Post by eru » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 4:20 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #280

eru wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on where people want to live and work. But a big part of why lower density is bad is because it leads to lots of commuting.

I live in NYC and don't own a car. All my errands are done on foot and by bike, and I'm using relatively little power because I live in a big apartment building. If I lived in the suburbs and had to use a car for most trips, then my carbon footprint would be substantially higher, even without having to commute. This map gets to the heart of the issue: https://twitter.com/TheJakeSchmidt/status/142478272240963174...

Yes. Though I would hope that some people would use remote as an opportunity to work from other cities, and not just from the suburbs.

(I work from Singapore for a London based company, for example.)

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#685

Post by lostcolony » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

sciprojguy wrote: post #681

lostcolony wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that includes an hour long lunch break, then the parent is basically just saying their employer pays them for their commute (especially since it sounds like they take the train or similar, and that probably is covered by their employer as well). Pretty sure most people who object to commutes do so because that time is uncompensated (and that people who demand them back in the office expect them in the office 8 hou…

Pretty sure you're wrong. If you drive, the commute can be a stressful waste of time.

The parent isn't driving.

But, sure, let's go with that line - if you are salaried, and you have an hour each way commute, and your company okayed you working 6 hours a day (since your commute is 2), and they also paid you extra for mileage (to offset fuel and wear and tear), are you saying you'd object as strongly as the people objecting to those 2 hours ON TOP of 8 hours in the office, with no compensation for mileage?

Because that was my point; the general objection to commuting I've heard, and would raise myself, is that it is unpaid personal time. Not that it's just an unpleasant task that the company is compensating me fully for.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#686

Post by tener » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 7:27 PM UTC

reidjs wrote: post #429

mvanbaak wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or, get a bike. healthy, no emissions, and on top of that, cheap.

True, but not everyone lives close enough to work or is in physical shape to bike. Most people should, though :)

The bikes are nice idea, but hardly panacea. You need to design the city around it (costly, conflicts with other usages), isn't possible for variety of people (age, disability, distance).

I used to drive 40km to work every day in single direction. Not gonna happen with a bike.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#687

Post by MichaelZuo » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 8:29 PM UTC

eru wrote: post #683

MichaelZuo wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A super genius could most likely bargain for a pay/bonus cut and 40 hour weeks for 7 figures easily after a few years of demonstrated performance.

Yes. Though a super genius also gets special treatment at eg Google and other places. So it's hard to say anything general about their compensation.

Well it’s a sliding scale sort of thing right. A regular ole’ genius could probably negotiate the same for high six figures.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#688

Post by throwaway_qcjal » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:01 AM UTC

dqpb wrote: post #196

throwaway_qcjal wrote: post #10

I think this is making a whole lot of out nothing, or at least not much. Google would determine your pay based on your work location, regardless of whether that's your home or the office. As a result people that lived far from the office in a typically less expensive area could see their pay drop.

Do you think they should reduce salary for people who have paid off their mortgage? Those people also have lower cost of living.

The reality is that cost of living is really just a proxy in these conversations, really what we're talking about is the market wage for "premium" developers. I imagine over time remote developers will converge to a single market, but that it will take time, since there isn't as many opportunities for remote developers now there's not much pressure to move towards competing against remote offers. E.g., if I go to my employer and ask for a higher wage working remotely their likely response would be good luck getting a similar remote position. But as more remote opportunities open up you'll likely see more competition.

If there's enough remote positions and they're generally seen as equally desirable as in person positions we might even see everywhere going to a single market within national boundaries regardless of remote or in person, which would be quite interesting.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#689

Post by eru » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:37 AM UTC

MichaelZuo wrote: post #687

eru wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Though a super genius also gets special treatment at eg Google and other places. So it's hard to say anything general about their compensation.

Well it’s a sliding scale sort of thing right. A regular ole’ genius could probably negotiate the same for high six figures.

I've worked for Google, Goldman Sachs, a few others, and now for a prop market maker.

I'd say I'm at best a regular ole' genius, and I can confirm that you can negotiate quite a lot.

Especially when taking a new job, and especially if you arrange for having multiple offers. Negotiating while already on the job faces quite a lot more headwind.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#690

Post by partiallypro » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 3:28 AM UTC

I don't really get this, shouldn't you get paid more? If more people worked from home that means the company is paying less expenses. Less floor space, less internet costs, less office supplies. To me, cutting pay for remote workers is basically the company double dipping.