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Australia is becoming a surveillance state

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Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#311

Post by zepto »

handrous wrote: post #294
stackedinserter wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, anyone think that a US civilian militia has more than a snowball's chance in hell against any committed government-deployed force? I do think that in case of armed resistance, US government will step back instead of nuking Oklahoma City. Also, search "chechen wars". Large well-equipped Russian army with tanks, artillery and air force lost to people armed with AK's, determination and grassroots support from lo…

I am skeptical of the utility of private arms in resisting a home-grown tyrannical government. I'm extremely skeptical that they're better to have around, than not to have around, from a preserving-liberty perspective, in a developed state, especially. I'd welcome any evidence that they're of much use for that. I see too many mixed outcomes (private arms aiding in the installation of tyrannical government, notably, o…

> I am skeptical of the utility of private arms in resisting a home-grown tyrannical government.

…

> I'm aware of involves extensive foreign intervention and/or resistance to a foreign occupier, which is very different.

You say they are different, but you don’t say why.

Effectively all you are doing is dismissing the evidence without reasoning.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#312

Post by noxer »

handrous wrote: post #294
stackedinserter wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, anyone think that a US civilian militia has more than a snowball's chance in hell against any committed government-deployed force? I do think that in case of armed resistance, US government will step back instead of nuking Oklahoma City. Also, search "chechen wars". Large well-equipped Russian army with tanks, artillery and air force lost to people armed with AK's, determination and grassroots support from lo…

I am skeptical of the utility of private arms in resisting a home-grown tyrannical government. I'm extremely skeptical that they're better to have around, than not to have around, from a preserving-liberty perspective, in a developed state, especially. I'd welcome any evidence that they're of much use for that. I see too many mixed outcomes (private arms aiding in the installation of tyrannical government, notably, o…

History only give us multiple examples of what happens if the people where disarmed in the years before the gov went fully tyrannical. Not the evidence you wanted but good enough for me.

>I think the reverse is far more likely (private arms supporting tyranny)

They would need to overpower gov AND the privately armed non-supporters. Compared to only the gov if the people would not be armed. (unless you assume the tyranny group is actually unarmed because they follow the law but this seems weird highly tyrannical and criminal groups all over the world always find a way to arm themself even in places where private people dont have guns.)

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#313

Post by otikik »

shell0x wrote: post #240
ostenning wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did the opposite, moved to Germany from Australia. Now I look at my home country and im shocked about how things are degrading there

As a German living in Australia, I’m shocked what happened to Germany. Politics turned to Left-wing/Green party vs AFD and there is no middle ground anymore. The FDP basically disappeared and there’s a cliff in society over things like the refugee crisis and Merkel’s “everyone is welcome here” politics. If I’d ever come back to Europe, I’d settle in Switzerland. It just is the better Germany(at least to me).

> Merkel’s “everyone is welcome here” politics. > I’d settle in Switzerland

Is this intentionally ironic?

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#314

Post by throwaheyy »

c_o_n_v_e_x wrote: post #243
gonzo41 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Australian. Respectfully, you're totally wrong. Government should be for everyone. Parties should have a platform that is for a majority. For the most part, Australia has populist fairly centrist small c conservative governments. It's getting bad at the moment here mostly because the current governing party is past due for it's turn on the opposition benches. And it also seems that everyone's having a go at being…

Re: voting, it's not a "right" if it's compulsory. It's an obligation.

Technically, you have the right not to vote in Australia, but you must still show up and collect a ballot paper. You can leave it blank, or scribble anything on it.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#315

Post by timbit42 »

titzer wrote: post #207
L_226 wrote: post #66

Since leaving Australia (and started living in Europe) I have come to the conclusion that Australia is not a "real" country - it is just a continent owned by corporate interests that happens to also have people living on it. Corporate interests own the media, politicians, food production, education etc. and no one cares, because Life Is Good. Why expect anything to change, or people to care about strong democratic in…

My experience after having grown up in America, living in Germany 7 years, and then living almost a year in Australia, is that all those you write might be completely true, but even then, Australia is actually behind the United States in all the things you mentioned. Other than everything being redonk expensive, it's a Anglosphere paradise compared to the United States. The US is decades ahead of Australia in terms o…

It would be better if Australia wasn't on the same track as the United States.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#316

Post by handrous »

zepto wrote: post #311
handrous wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am skeptical of the utility of private arms in resisting a home-grown tyrannical government. I'm extremely skeptical that they're better to have around, than not to have around, from a preserving-liberty perspective, in a developed state, especially. I'd welcome any evidence that they're of much use for that. I see too many mixed outcomes (private arms aiding in the installation of tyrannical government, notably, o…

> I am skeptical of the utility of private arms in resisting a home-grown tyrannical government. … > I'm aware of involves extensive foreign intervention and/or resistance to a foreign occupier, which is very different. You say they are different, but you don’t say why. Effectively all you are doing is dismissing the evidence without reasoning.

> You say they are different, but you don’t say why.

Sorry, didn't occur to me to note the differences. The incentives, motivations, goals, costs, and resources for a foreign government fighting on your soil are all very from your own government fighting a civil war or dealing with a domestic, guerrilla resistance, are the main things.

I remain unconvinced that private arms are likely to be any kind of useful factor in resisting tyranny in a developed country, and also unconvinced that they're more likely to be used to that end than in service of the precisely the opposite purpose, even if they were useful for tyranny-resistance to begin with.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#317

Post by dorkwood »

noduerme wrote: post #168
audiometry wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, really suprised to see someone else speaking my mind. I went to Australia, from the US, with the perception that Australia was wild country where people were free and independent. Sort of like if I lived in rural Arizona or Idaho or something. But what I found was an ultra-tedious nitpicky rules and control mindset. Really turned me off. Just surprised to see someone else say similar.

I totally expected Idaho, too. That's why the racism didn't seem out of place. But it's like everyone there is obsessed with these little rules and they're all nannys about reminding you of them all the time. Fucking annoying, I agree, and it doesn't even make sense. Wayyyyy out in the bush I did meet people who weren't like that. Met a French guy who was roasting a kangaroo and living out in nowhere with his teenage…

I found people in the US to be just as nitpicky about certain things.

Oh, you thought you could cross the road there, even though there are no cars around? You shouldn't do that. You should cross at the stop signs.

Oh, you thought you could just walk in the building, go up to the counter and order food? Sorry, you need to walk through the special door, which puts you in the special food-ordering queue. You'll have to leave the building and come back in through the special door.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#318

Post by handrous »

noxer wrote: post #312
handrous wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am skeptical of the utility of private arms in resisting a home-grown tyrannical government. I'm extremely skeptical that they're better to have around, than not to have around, from a preserving-liberty perspective, in a developed state, especially. I'd welcome any evidence that they're of much use for that. I see too many mixed outcomes (private arms aiding in the installation of tyrannical government, notably, o…

History only give us multiple examples of what happens if the people where disarmed in the years before the gov went fully tyrannical. Not the evidence you wanted but good enough for me. >I think the reverse is far more likely (private arms supporting tyranny) They would need to overpower gov AND the privately armed non-supporters. Compared to only the gov if the people would not be armed. (unless you assume the tyra…

> They would need to overpower gov AND the privately armed non-supporters. Compared to only the gov if the people would not be armed. (unless you assume the tyranny group is actually unarmed because they follow the law but this seems weird highly tyrannical and criminal groups all over the world always find a way to arm themself even in places where private people dont have guns.)

The role they play is usually as part of a deniable dirty-work militia, or in cases in which the military sits out the conflict (usually a very bad sign for whoever's in power, tyrannical or not). In some cases in which the government is very ineffective and has a shit army, they can help—but again, I'm aware of that working in cases like the Cuban revolution, which wasn't exactly a blow struck for liberty, and it requires that the government has poor support and is very weak to begin with.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#319

Post by janeroe »

otikik wrote: post #313
shell0x wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German living in Australia, I’m shocked what happened to Germany. Politics turned to Left-wing/Green party vs AFD and there is no middle ground anymore. The FDP basically disappeared and there’s a cliff in society over things like the refugee crisis and Merkel’s “everyone is welcome here” politics. If I’d ever come back to Europe, I’d settle in Switzerland. It just is the better Germany(at least to me).

> Merkel’s “everyone is welcome here” politics. > I’d settle in Switzerland Is this intentionally ironic?

> Is this intentionally ironic?

There is no contradiction. If you want to come to Canada, for example, you have to qualify for one of the programs, e.g. "Express Entry". That is, have education or better yet Canadian education, at least bachelor's degree but better PhD, experience or better yet Canadian experience, profession in a shortage list, proficiency of English and French, enough money for a year, be <35 y.o., have a husband/wife who also has all of those. If I have none of those, should I be welcome? What if I'm part of ISIS and has been sent to found an HQ in Toronto? You wouldn't invite everyone to your house indiscriminately. Why would you to your country (and then also feed them and house)?

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#320

Post by kwere »

thisone22 wrote: post #84
retsibsi wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you flesh this out more? I'm not asking for academic rigour, but at the moment it's hard to engage because your critique is so sweeping and unspecific.

It's just bog standard Australian cultural cringe. I've spent a good chunk of my adulthood living in various countries in Europe, and Australia. Europhilic nonsense such as in the GP betray their almost total lack of understanding as to the actual state of affairs in European countries. Corruption is everywhere. Corporate interests influence policy.. everywhere. Moronic government decisions abound.. literally everywh…

> in Europe, you can be the wrong kind of white in your OWN country

You know Racism is about ethnicity (+culture) not the colour of your skin, right?

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