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The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

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Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#61

Post by danso »

shakes wrote: post #33
tc wrote: post #21

> I spoke to Airbnb about EJ’s situation. They won’t reimburse her for damages This is bad news. They're going to backtrack on this. The sooner they do it, the better for them politically. I understand the problems of setting a precedent. And there really is no getting around the fact that the hosts do have the final responsibility for screening travelers (and travelers for screening hosts). But rightly or wrongly, t…

I wonder who advised them against reimbursing her... their lawyers? It seems like a no-brainer. I've been fascinated with AirBnB. I'm taking a week-long vacation in August and have been considering listing my NYC apartment to help offset some vacation costs. Their response in this situation totally turned me off from the idea. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Really? If they reimbursed her, wouldn't that make them liable for any other future incidents?

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#62

Post by djb_hackernews »

tc wrote: post #21

> I spoke to Airbnb about EJ’s situation. They won’t reimburse her for damages This is bad news. They're going to backtrack on this. The sooner they do it, the better for them politically. I understand the problems of setting a precedent. And there really is no getting around the fact that the hosts do have the final responsibility for screening travelers (and travelers for screening hosts). But rightly or wrongly, t…

I would imagine this would be a situation that homeowners insurance is for. But I bet homeowners insurance won't cover damage caused by running your home as a hotel.

If not, then Airbnb should have some sort of insurance for these situations. Can't have all of the upside and none of the downside.

Not to mention if this happens a few more times, Airbnb's business model will be legislated away.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#63

Post by [deleted] »

jellicle wrote: post #60
tc wrote: post #21

> I spoke to Airbnb about EJ’s situation. They won’t reimburse her for damages This is bad news. They're going to backtrack on this. The sooner they do it, the better for them politically. I understand the problems of setting a precedent. And there really is no getting around the fact that the hosts do have the final responsibility for screening travelers (and travelers for screening hosts). But rightly or wrongly, t…

As was pointed out before, it's not possible to get insurance for this - homeowner's insurance specifically disclaims damage from renters, and it's generally not legal to rent your premises like this unless you comply with all the hotel rules, so AirBnb can't take out insurance either. All they can do is self-insure, and if they start paying out, people will realize "Hey, I can get a new TV if I let my friend come an…

[deleted]

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#64

Post by meric »

ArchD wrote: post #13

I found it ironic that the renter's 'name' is Dj Pattrson when I read this in a related article: "This week, New York Governor, David Paterson, signed a bill outlawing the use of private dwellings as makeshift hotels." http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/25/fawlty-logic/

Conspiracy theories anyone? Maybe someone from the hotel industry sent somebody to do this?

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#65

Post by danilocampos »

patrickod wrote: post #54
danilocampos wrote: post #20

"I spoke to Airbnb about EJ’s situation. They won’t reimburse her for damages, they say, and they do not insure against losses. They are helping police track down the person who did this, but their help ends there." ... Fuck. That. I don't care what the long-term implications are, I don't care about precedent, I don't care about policy, I don't care about cost . If my business does this to someone I make it right . E…

What would you have rather AirBnB done in this situation? Do you not think it's a little unreasonable that AirBnB would have to take on the role of the insurer here ? People should know the risks they're taking in letting a complete stranger into their house without even meeting in person. Just because someone found you through AirBnB doesn't mean you can take the risk for granted. You're still letting a complete str…

> What would you have rather AirBnB done in this situation?

Make their user whole with a big fat wad of cash that approaches the value lost in the described crime. Relocation assistance. Go completely above and beyond.

> Do you not think it's a little unreasonable that AirBnB would have to take on the role of the insurer here ?

In general? Sure. Here? Absolutely not unreasonable. This is the absolute worst case scenario. The only way you top this is burning down a house and killing someone's dog.

Airbnb did not plan for this and did not appropriately set expectations. What they did set expectations for was "an Ebay of spaces," a safe and orderly way to monetize your home. The victim here argued very persuasively that because you can't contact people before the transaction, the onus is on Airbnb to ensure that they aren't sociopaths who will destroy your home and steal your identity.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#66

Post by Cushman »

patrickod wrote: post #54
danilocampos wrote: post #20

"I spoke to Airbnb about EJ’s situation. They won’t reimburse her for damages, they say, and they do not insure against losses. They are helping police track down the person who did this, but their help ends there." ... Fuck. That. I don't care what the long-term implications are, I don't care about precedent, I don't care about policy, I don't care about cost . If my business does this to someone I make it right . E…

What would you have rather AirBnB done in this situation? Do you not think it's a little unreasonable that AirBnB would have to take on the role of the insurer here ? People should know the risks they're taking in letting a complete stranger into their house without even meeting in person. Just because someone found you through AirBnB doesn't mean you can take the risk for granted. You're still letting a complete str…

It's not unreasonable, it's their business model.

Airbnb is built on smoothing over the process of renting your house to a complete stranger. If they don't have a solution or even a process for the possibility that a complete stranger will trash my house, they just lost a huge part of their value proposition.

I don't think anyone is saying Airbnb is legally liable— just that they should take responsibility for their own sake.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#67

Post by smhinsey »

forgot_password wrote: post #56

Doesn't AirBnb require a credit card from the renter? Wouldn't it be straightforward to find the vandalizing renter using their credit card information? I'm sure that I'm missing something here...

The other big discussion indicates that the SFPD have already made an arrest. I think it's more about the bell that cannot be un-rung at this point.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#68

Post by wynand »

arepb wrote: post #55
breck wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the least, I hope someone starts a fund for this girl. I'd contribute. This is a terrible story.

I would kickstart a little for this.

I remember I had difficulty contributing to Kickstart since I'm in the Netherlands.

Is there someone here that can set up a Paypal account for this gal? I'd happily donate a few $.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#69

Post by VladRussian »

jellicle wrote: post #60
tc wrote: post #21

> I spoke to Airbnb about EJ’s situation. They won’t reimburse her for damages This is bad news. They're going to backtrack on this. The sooner they do it, the better for them politically. I understand the problems of setting a precedent. And there really is no getting around the fact that the hosts do have the final responsibility for screening travelers (and travelers for screening hosts). But rightly or wrongly, t…

As was pointed out before, it's not possible to get insurance for this - homeowner's insurance specifically disclaims damage from renters, and it's generally not legal to rent your premises like this unless you comply with all the hotel rules, so AirBnb can't take out insurance either. All they can do is self-insure, and if they start paying out, people will realize "Hey, I can get a new TV if I let my friend come an…

>and it's generally not legal to rent your premises like this unless you comply with all the hotel rules, so AirBnb can't take out insurance either.

can UberCab happen here, ie. some zealous DA would come down on AirBnB itself and/or subpoena the records of people renting out?

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#70

Post by Lewisham »

kwis wrote: post #49

The only blessing in this story is that the miscreants made their damage so plainly obvious that the problems were identified quite quickly. If they'd been a bit more subtle and a little patient, they could've engaged in massive identity theft and financial fraud without ever making it clear that AirBNB was the attack vector.

I was just thinking this. Presuming most AirBnB users rent regularly, you could quite easily swipe some jewelry (stuff at the bottom of the box) before anyone notices. Even if they do notice, they might go "I wonder where they went...?" and not even figure it was theft for a long time, if ever.

Even if theft was presumed, not only would multiple users have been in and out by that time, but you'd have no way of proving who took it, let alone have enough for the police to get a warrant. It sounds like the easiest money in the world.

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