YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#41

Post by gibba999 » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #5

So if Rand Paul is democratically elected and YouTube silences him, then in effect YouTube is silencing the population that elected Rand Paul. Furthermore (I can't see the video) - if he did indeed simply quote two peer-reviewed papers is it right to suspend him? As an exercise, which of the following statements are correct: 1. Gaiter masks will stop you from getting COVID-19 2. Surgical masks will stop you from gett…

My read of the evidence in 2021:

1. Gaiter masks will nominally reduce your odds of getting COVID-19 (viral loads down perhaps 30%), and more significantly reduce your odds of spreading it

2. Surgical masks will dramatically reduce your odds of getting COVID-19 in public settings (e.g. shopping), and slightly reduce your odds in closer settings (e.g. co-habitating, where it's impossible to keep masks on 100% of the time, and where there is extended exposure)

3. KN95 masks will effectively stop you from getting COVID-19, if used reliably, consistently, and in conjunction with other measures like handwashing and social distancing in public health settings. They will significantly reduce, but not eliminate, odds in closer settings (e.g. co-habitating)

4. N95 masks will be marginally more effective as KN95 if used correctly, and about the same if not

All of this presumes authentic masks, and the original variant. I have no idea about delta.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#42

Post by jacquesm » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

danhak wrote: post #32

swashboon wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except they are effective. They are not as effective as a N95 mask but all scientific data shows they are still effective and reducing transmission rate in a population.

Why haven't we seen significantly better outcomes in states with mask mandates vs. those without?

That's not how this works. You can only compare with the future that wasn't. People may decide all by themselves that wearing a mask is a good idea, mandate or not, and then there is the point that not all masks are created equal, which is the subject of this thread.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#43

Post by Veen » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #31

makomk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it really doesn't seem all that plausible that cloth masks do much at this point. Not only was there never good evidence for them working, the best ones only block something like 90% of virus-bearing particles. To put this in context current estimates seem to be that people infected with Delta produce 100-1000x the amount of virus that previous variants did; the effect of mask wearing is absolutely miniscule co…

How is blocking X% of the virus particles less impactful if there's more of them? Fewer particles admitted means reduced chance of infection, no? Always better to less virus particles than more.

But almost no one is wearing the best sort of mask. They're wearing porous cloth masks that stop next to nothing.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#44

Post by mark_l_watson » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

Yeah, this is screwed-up.

I have been vaccinated, and I always still wear a mask when shopping or otherwise indoors.

But, I don't have the right to tell other people what to do, and YouTube does not have the right to "cancel" an elected senator who is both a doctor and has had covid-19. I think that the Senator is probably wrong about masks, but I support his right to speak his mind.

Corporations that own public forums like YouTube, Facebook, etc. don't get what I would normally consider property rights here - they control public commons and I think that there should be strong government over site that does not allow censoring opinions.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#45

Post by craftinator » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

corndoge wrote: post #3

> YouTube indicated that examples of the offending content in the video included the line: “Most of the masks you get over the counter don’t work. They don’t prevent infection.” > It also included the quote: “Trying to shape human behavior isn’t the same as following the actual science which tells us that cloth masks don’t work.” Regardless of what you think about YouTube's misinformation policy, I don't think this i…

> I don't think this is even misinformation!

Having watched the original, I would say there is a mixture of truth, twisted truth, speculation, and complete misinformation (which is basically what we should expect from any politician).

While it's clear that the messaging he was sending was BAD for people's health, because anything diverting airflow between a sick person and a healthy person helps the healthy person not become a sick person, I truly dislike the censorship being enacted.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#46

Post by matz1 » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

gibba999 wrote: post #13

This seems exceptionally problematic. I absolutely think everyone should use masks, but the science is clearly not in on the effectiveness of cloth masks. It's a valid area of discussion. My own opinion is that everyone should use N95-equivalent masks, but others are entitled to their opinions too. We have democratic and civic processes to decide what should be mandated, what should be recommended, what should be dis…

I strongly against mask mandate.

The problem with N95 mask :

- communication barrier, it destroy ability to use facial expression to aid communication.

- uncomfortable

- inconvenience

- not free

- environmental waste

But if someone want to wear mask, I wouldn't stop you as long as you don't force it to other people.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#47

Post by kiba » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 3:33 PM UTC

makomk wrote: post #20

corndoge wrote: post #3

> YouTube indicated that examples of the offending content in the video included the line: “Most of the masks you get over the counter don’t work. They don’t prevent infection.” > It also included the quote: “Trying to shape human behavior isn’t the same as following the actual science which tells us that cloth masks don’t work.” Regardless of what you think about YouTube's misinformation policy, I don't think this i…

Yeah, it really doesn't seem all that plausible that cloth masks do much at this point. Not only was there never good evidence for them working, the best ones only block something like 90% of virus-bearing particles. To put this in context current estimates seem to be that people infected with Delta produce 100-1000x the amount of virus that previous variants did; the effect of mask wearing is absolutely miniscule co…

That's why we social distance and use other methods. It's defense in depth. Though it seemed that these days we mostly stopped social distancing.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#48

Post by fighterpilot » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 3:33 PM UTC

spiderice wrote: post #27

fighterpilot wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't work? This article is claiming otherwise: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

So what? It's easy to find a million articles that say whatever you need them to say. The point is that Youtube has decided which articles are "right" and "wrong", when they have no business deciding such things.

My comment has nothing to do with whether Youtube should have the power to do what they've done. It has to do with the assertion in the GP that it's not misinformation to say unequivocally that cloth masks don't work. That appears to be nonsense since there's a handful of studies that at the very least leave open that question.

Have a look at Fig 3.A from this study:

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#49

Post by hackinthebochs » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 3:33 PM UTC

makomk wrote: post #20

corndoge wrote: post #3

> YouTube indicated that examples of the offending content in the video included the line: “Most of the masks you get over the counter don’t work. They don’t prevent infection.” > It also included the quote: “Trying to shape human behavior isn’t the same as following the actual science which tells us that cloth masks don’t work.” Regardless of what you think about YouTube's misinformation policy, I don't think this i…

Yeah, it really doesn't seem all that plausible that cloth masks do much at this point. Not only was there never good evidence for them working, the best ones only block something like 90% of virus-bearing particles. To put this in context current estimates seem to be that people infected with Delta produce 100-1000x the amount of virus that previous variants did; the effect of mask wearing is absolutely miniscule co…

Viral load during initial infection is also implicated in severity of illness. Blocking 90% of particles can be the difference between life and death for some people.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#50

Post by endisneigh » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

gibba999 wrote: post #41

endisneigh wrote: post #5

So if Rand Paul is democratically elected and YouTube silences him, then in effect YouTube is silencing the population that elected Rand Paul. Furthermore (I can't see the video) - if he did indeed simply quote two peer-reviewed papers is it right to suspend him? As an exercise, which of the following statements are correct: 1. Gaiter masks will stop you from getting COVID-19 2. Surgical masks will stop you from gett…

My read of the evidence in 2021: 1. Gaiter masks will nominally reduce your odds of getting COVID-19 (viral loads down perhaps 30%), and more significantly reduce your odds of spreading it 2. Surgical masks will dramatically reduce your odds of getting COVID-19 in public settings (e.g. shopping), and slightly reduce your odds in closer settings (e.g. co-habitating, where it's impossible to keep masks on 100% of the t…

Some scientists have argued that gaiter masks are worse than nothing: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083

Obviously the jury is still out, but don't you think it's problematic for a platform to just unilaterally decide the truth? It's literally the opposite of science. Science cannot exist without skepticism.

Now if Rand Paul was saying that COVID-19 doesn't exist that's another thing. Saying masks don't work is a statement that requires many qualifications and elaborations. Saying it alone can be both true and false.