Australia is becoming a surveillance state • Hacker News Board

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#261

Post by XorNot » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

CogitoCogito wrote: post #237

jlangenauer wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what your problem is with using harnesses on roof work - it's basic safety equipment, and even with Australia's (very good) safety laws and (mostly good) safety culture, there's still around 50-60 people killed each year in the construction industry.

That statistic alone doesn’t say very much. How does the number of killed per worker compare to other countries? The fact that 50-60 die doesn’t necessarily contradict others’ claims that they are overly focused on safety.

It's a bloody roof mate, it's not worth dying for period.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#262

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 2:43 PM UTC

octodog wrote: post #85

lethologica wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m seeing so many negative comments about Australia and yet this is the Australia that I know and love deeply. I wonder what’s causing the stark differences in view.

Just different perspectives I suppose. American elections seem farcical to me but lots of Americans don't seem to agree with me.

[deleted]

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#263

Post by XorNot » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 2:43 PM UTC

alvah wrote: post #241

jussij wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the OP is wishing for Coal and Gas to go away soon in the hope it can spare the world from the upcoming catastrophe that is climate change. What is stupid, with Europe and the USA both planning a tax on carbon, in just a few decades the OP's wish will most likely come true, yet Australia keeps wishing for a different future.

OP's way of life has been made possible by cheap energy. Wishing it away before renewables are able to provide baseload power in an advanced economy (and the storage problem is, at best, decades away from being solved) is unwise.

Australia has the most abundant uranium reserves in the world. We have exactly 1 nuclear reactor we don't use for making power (yet is actually regionally vital for supplying medical isotopes to hospitals in SE-asia as well).

Every side of politics has acted like complete cowards on this issue, with the Liberals the worst offenders - they pay it lip service every election then do nothing while handing out cash to the coal miners.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#264

Post by yawnxyz » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #91

BFLpL0QNek wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was written in 1964 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lucky_Country , it still rings true today.

Have to quote this bit for those too lazy to follow the link: Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck. It lives on other people's ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise.

I'm spending some time in Canada and I'm thinking Canada followed along the same lines...

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#265

Post by XorNot » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 2:47 PM UTC

jlangenauer wrote: post #210

shric wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for "tens of thousands"? I think it was fewer than 10k. Thankfully only 3,500 in Sydney out of a population of 5 million. Fortunately the vast majority of Australians aren't completely selfish and thoughtless. Nobody likes lockdowns. The government doesn't benefit from them, it's not lining some evil overlord's pockets.

I believe the governments in Australia do benefit from the lockdowns. I'm from Australia, but live in Germany, so when I look back home from here, I'm shocked by how deliberately the fear of Covid has been stoked and played up in Australia. Constantly in and out of lockdowns, daily press conferences about death and case numbers, no path out and no hope. It feels to me that Australia will be a country suffering from P…

There are not enough vaccines. Which is to say, the current Liberal government was offered a blank cheque from Pfizer to order as many as it could mid last year, instead didn't (because they're incompetent and incapable of understanding moderately sophisticated ideas), and then proceeded to engage in a runabout of graft, corruption and waste that means even when we are technically overflowing with AstraZeneca vaccines it's actually still surprisingly hard to have them (and I'll note, we also got short changed on AZ because Europe shut down exports of it for a while - though that's also on the Fed gov because again, we could've bought literally as much Pfizer as we wanted early on).

They aren't benefiting from anything: the governments are all rightly tanking in popularity, and being held up by Rupert Murdoch's multi-decadal commitment to dumbing down the narrative.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#266

Post by XorNot » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

jjgreen wrote: post #234

justinclift wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err... we're literally in a pandemic, where people getting together in large numbers makes things worse. When we're not in pandemic conditions, people are quite welcome to gather and protest whatever the heck they want.

Don't be surprised if that takes, er, a while to happen

So do you people who keep telling everyone dictatorship is next whenever anything happens get tired of being wrong literally every time?

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#267

Post by dkdbejwi383 » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

nxmnxm99 wrote: post #239

hestefisk wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is nicely said. I grew up in a Western European country where I was used to most people caring about big societal issues such as health, environment, civil rights and privacy. In most European countries there is real competition between newspapers and an, at least in some places, a tradition of democratic participation. Meanwhile, in Australia, the “free press” is effectively owned by Rupert Murdoch, the…

I can't imagine living in a place where everyone is constantly moralizing about things like "media diversity". How exhausting.

I don't think I'd class "being concerned that the overwhelming majority of the media is owned and controlled by a single individual" as "moralising"

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#268

Post by zo1 » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

user3939382 wrote: post #144

L_226 wrote: post #66

Since leaving Australia (and started living in Europe) I have come to the conclusion that Australia is not a "real" country - it is just a continent owned by corporate interests that happens to also have people living on it. Corporate interests own the media, politicians, food production, education etc. and no one cares, because Life Is Good. Why expect anything to change, or people to care about strong democratic in…

I’ve come to the conclusion that, while ideals about democracy and freedom sound nice, people are busy with their work and families and are not inclined to do or sacrifice much to secure those ideals unless there is a problem with their access to food, followed by other basic necessities. As long as the state provides those things, the public seems to be amenable to pretty much anything. The pervasive corruption in e…

You can also have a look at Zimbabwe as a further example of this. Even though society there was absolutely breaking down, including the ability to get food/water/electricity/police-protection, but people were still hunkering down and doing their best to maintain normalcy. People still sent their kids to school, they still dated, they still went to work, figured out ways to get a "salary" in whatever form they could, made adhoc businesses, had cellphones, internet, traveled if they could, and newspapers were printed, reporters roamed and reported, etc.

It didn't devolve into a end of the world apocalypse scenario that you'd imagine. Humans are incredibly resilient and they really just want to get on with their lives and be left alone. I guess they do so by compartmentalizing and rationalizing away things happening outside of their immediate view. It's the "easy" aspect of being able to tell politicians to "meddle" with other people and spend "other" people's money that gets them enthusiastic because it requires very little effort.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#269

Post by partomniscient » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

1337shadow wrote: post #246

partomniscient wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese are doing it as part of 'reformatting' Hong Kong, but it happens in our own backyards as well [1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22yqoDs1_TE In our current world societies the university students are the most important visible protestors, because they're the smartest people that have the most to lose from incoming forced change. They're young and they see personal freedom disappearing. However given…

Students are hardly the smartest people, unless you believe that growing up and acquiring decades of practical experience actually makes you dumber. Canada: A "filmmaker" claims that one of the police officers had a rock in their hand, why would I believe a "documentary filmmaker" without any actual evidence (you'd expect a video evidence from the guy) participating in a protest more than actual police officers? or t…

I just posted a video. You react with a lot of minimal information. Heed my earlier comment about all the pieces. (I am guilty of this behaviour too).

If you dig deeper, there are(/were?) other video sources that had the union leader saying things along the lines of "this guys not with us, we don't know who he is, take of your mask and protest peacefully like the rest of us". The Canadian police got caught out trying to incite things presumably for political grandstanding.

Trust in authority is broken for those of us aware enough of it.

The students have the most 'potential future value' to lose, that's why they fight the most. They're fighting for the possibility to be the smartest rather than have it denied and have their freedoms conformed by the powers that are attempting to dictate.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#270

Post by XorNot » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

stackedinserter wrote: post #137

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns in the hands of the Australians who want guns in their hands is an outcome that's about a thousand times worse than a "disarmed people". Also, anyone think that a US civilian militia has more than a snowball's chance in hell against any committed government-deployed force? Tell 'im 'e's dreamin'

> Also, anyone think that a US civilian militia has more than a snowball's chance in hell against any committed government-deployed force? I do think that in case of armed resistance, US government will step back instead of nuking Oklahoma City. Also, search "chechen wars". Large well-equipped Russian army with tanks, artillery and air force lost to people armed with AK's, determination and grassroots support from lo…

You keep imagining that all the population will be on your side in this exchange. It'll just be so obvious you should be fighting the government, everyone will join!