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The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

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Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#31

Post by tjr »

mcphilip wrote: post #25
watty wrote: post #5

Lets see if YC changes this title too...

For future reference, title is currently: "The Moment Of Truth For AirBnB As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed " Previous submission's title changed from: "AirBnB: Crimes committed against a host" to "Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned"

It may be significant that the changed title on the other article is actually the title of the article; the older title is not. (Unless someone persuaded the author to change the title on their own site as well as changing here...)

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#32

Post by vladd »

dotBen wrote: post #8

When someone first told me about AirBnB I immediately dismissed it - just like Fred Wilson did. It fell in the group of ideas which I just find puzzling because the concept is totally alien to something I would want to do/buy/participate in. I don't get why anyone would want to rent out their couch or spare room to a transient stranger - even 'vetted' within a community (and we can see that vetted is very lose here)…

Insurance probably requires a hotel reception-like presence (person on site, cam surveillance, security coverage, signed contracts, in-person ID validation and a way to prove who did what in case something bad happens).

I can't imagine any insurance company signing up for insuring "rented your home while being away" guests at rates that would be considered affordable for the rental model, nor a lot of AirBnB audience willing to turn their property into a de-facto hotel establishment.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#33

Post by shakes »

tc wrote: post #21

> I spoke to Airbnb about EJ’s situation. They won’t reimburse her for damages This is bad news. They're going to backtrack on this. The sooner they do it, the better for them politically. I understand the problems of setting a precedent. And there really is no getting around the fact that the hosts do have the final responsibility for screening travelers (and travelers for screening hosts). But rightly or wrongly, t…

I wonder who advised them against reimbursing her... their lawyers? It seems like a no-brainer.

I've been fascinated with AirBnB. I'm taking a week-long vacation in August and have been considering listing my NYC apartment to help offset some vacation costs. Their response in this situation totally turned me off from the idea. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#34

Post by sek »

dotBen wrote: post #8

When someone first told me about AirBnB I immediately dismissed it - just like Fred Wilson did. It fell in the group of ideas which I just find puzzling because the concept is totally alien to something I would want to do/buy/participate in. I don't get why anyone would want to rent out their couch or spare room to a transient stranger - even 'vetted' within a community (and we can see that vetted is very lose here)…

What they do is in my eyes the opposite of professionalization, AirBnB and Getaround are already done with hotels and rental cars.

It's like growing vegetables in the backyard.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#35

Post by arepb »

vladd wrote: post #32
dotBen wrote: post #8

When someone first told me about AirBnB I immediately dismissed it - just like Fred Wilson did. It fell in the group of ideas which I just find puzzling because the concept is totally alien to something I would want to do/buy/participate in. I don't get why anyone would want to rent out their couch or spare room to a transient stranger - even 'vetted' within a community (and we can see that vetted is very lose here)…

Insurance probably requires a hotel reception-like presence (person on site, cam surveillance, security coverage, signed contracts, in-person ID validation and a way to prove who did what in case something bad happens). I can't imagine any insurance company signing up for insuring "rented your home while being away" guests at rates that would be considered affordable for the rental model, nor a lot of AirBnB audience…

If an insurance company won't write a policy for it, you probably shouldn't be doing it.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#36

Post by _delirium »

jerrya wrote: post #7

How long before AirBnB offers some form of insurance, much as ebay started offering buyer protection. Related: how long before your home owner / rental insurance specifically excludes AirBnb type activities?

On the 2nd point, most already explicitly exclude sublets and unlicensed rentals. Not directed at AirBnB, but due to shenanigans that have being going on for much longer. The short-term stays thing is relatively new (and largely popularized by AirBnB), but unlicensed rental for longer periods has long been common, especially in college towns, and insurance usually wants no part of it, especially in college towns.

(From what I understand, Couchsurfing is closer to a gray area, because of no money exchanged. Having a guest visit is considered a normal use of a home, and it's not clear if an insurance company could successfully argue that Couchsurfing guests aren't "real" guests.)

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#37

Post by ForrestN »

I feel really bad for all involved, including AirBnB. They must feel awful, and this is obviously incredibly stressful. I agree with the consensus that they have thus far failed to use this as a marketing opportunity (a la Tylenol) or even to mitigate much of the damage.

That said, I would be absolutely fascinated to learn how this is playing out. It would be a huge service to the community for someone to release a blow-by-blow timeline from inside the company about all these responses and the thinking behind them. I have enough humility to know that they have a lot of really smart people thinking through this stuff, and it's likely much more complicated than we all realize. I'd love to hear about that thinking.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#38

Post by jordank »

tc wrote: post #21

> I spoke to Airbnb about EJ’s situation. They won’t reimburse her for damages This is bad news. They're going to backtrack on this. The sooner they do it, the better for them politically. I understand the problems of setting a precedent. And there really is no getting around the fact that the hosts do have the final responsibility for screening travelers (and travelers for screening hosts). But rightly or wrongly, t…

Two-sided marketplaces are perfect when all actors are reasonable, but upon mainstream adoption many services invite whole range of unreasonable actors. Services that exist in a known niche probably can't scale the way that mass-market services can, but the actors are probably far more predictable.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#39

Post by klochner »

vladd wrote: post #32
dotBen wrote: post #8

When someone first told me about AirBnB I immediately dismissed it - just like Fred Wilson did. It fell in the group of ideas which I just find puzzling because the concept is totally alien to something I would want to do/buy/participate in. I don't get why anyone would want to rent out their couch or spare room to a transient stranger - even 'vetted' within a community (and we can see that vetted is very lose here)…

Insurance probably requires a hotel reception-like presence (person on site, cam surveillance, security coverage, signed contracts, in-person ID validation and a way to prove who did what in case something bad happens). I can't imagine any insurance company signing up for insuring "rented your home while being away" guests at rates that would be considered affordable for the rental model, nor a lot of AirBnB audience…

Here's what homeaway has to say about it:

http://community.homeaway.com/docs/DOC-1357

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#40

Post by danso »

helipad wrote: post #26

IMHO AirBnB is no more responsible than CouchSurfing. Whilst AirBnB charges a fee, that's purely as middleman for connecting two parties. Of course it's horrific for the person, and this is an extreme example, but it's a lesson learned of how to rent out a property. Take AirBnB out of the equation, and they've just let a complete stranger free reign over their apartment with a key for a week whilst leaving their own…

AirBnB's model depends on the two parties not being able to contact each other before a purchase is made. This is a restriction that does not happen on Craigslist, and as such, I'm able to vet just about everything I need to know about a candidate renter before he/she even knows the physical address of my place. For those prospective renters who don't have any real online identity (and decline to provide any other kind of info, such as proof of employment), I don't respond to their emails.

This is something you can't do on airbnb, so it's not at all fair to compare using their service to letting just some stranger in willy-nilly.

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