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Elementary OS 6 Odin

blog.elementary.io

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Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#291

Post by eloisant »

michaelpb wrote: post #232
mananaysiempre wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... And in GNOME’s Nautilus, Sushi https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/sushi does popup previews on spacebar more or less like the GP describes. (Though the whole thing, while useful in practice, feels like essentially a workaround for unnecessarily heavy and app-centric UIs. Having both an “Open” command and an “Open, but faster and does less” command feels like humans succumbing to the needs of computers, not computers…

> Though the whole thing, while useful in practice, feels like essentially a workaround for unnecessarily heavy and app-centric UIs. Right, I'm sometimes puzzled by how people approach their personal "deal-breakers" that prevent Mac->Lin (or Win->Lin) switch. Many of the issues are presented as though they are bugs or clear-cut missing features, but are in fact subjective preference statements. In this case the "spac…

It reminds me an article from the author of Paul Buchheit (gmail's creator), when he was beta testing it internally with Google employees.

Many of them were asking for email preview popups directly from the inbox. Instead of implementing it, he realized the need wasn't for a popup but for a wait to see your email quickly. The real issue was that it was slow when you clicked on an email, so he made it fast instead.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#292

Post by eitland »

geraneum wrote: post #286
eitland wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mostly to do with the inconsistencies in the interface. Coming from something like OSX which, for all its faults, presents a completely consistent user interface, I used Mac OS X from 2009 to 2012. It was sold as consistent and keyboard friendly back then. However: Describing a desktop interface where selecting a single word using the keyboard needs a different keystroke in different apps, that is - rich. Maybe thi…

I’ve had Mac since Snow Leopard, and recently Fedora on my desktop. In macOS command+arrow jumps to the begging or end of the line and option+arrow jumps words. If you hold down shift in addition, the words get selected. It has “always” been like this consistently!

I definitely used Snow Leopard, it was released in 2009.

This was a problem in Snow Leopard and probably the two next releases as well: I always upgraded as soon as possible.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#293

Post by Flow »

yboris wrote: post #14
trts wrote: post #3

Elementary is great, the couple times I've tried it, I wasn't into the desktop paradigm it was encouraging me to use (e.g., no minimize button, native apps that are pretty and consistent but less functional). Will look forward to giving it another spin. Having recently begun using a Mac for the first time, and after having had to suffer with Win10 for a few years, I have to say that I didn't appreciate that several o…

How can one live without the minimize button? What does the OS recommend instead?

When on a Mac, I use cmd+h(hide) extensively.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#294

Post by distances »

michaelmrose wrote: post #268
bitwize wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I have to enable it? There shouldn't be any goddamn high places!!!

It's not hidden in a disused lavatory behind a sign bearing the words "beware the leopard". Click menu button view panels "Information" Also F11 If remembers the state globally so if you leave it open it will always be there when you open a file manager window if you toggle it off it will be hidden next time too. It's not open by default perhaps because not everyone regards it as maximally useful. Say I open a file m…

> It's not open by default perhaps because not everyone regards it as maximally useful.

Indeed, I don't have any use for information or preview panes, I disable them all when encountering. IMHO they are a distraction from the content itself and make the view arrangement clumsy.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#295

Post by Normille »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #224
Normille wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trouble with Lucida Grande was that it didn't have an Italic variant. Which was a bit of a glaring oversight for a default font

Eh, in a UI font though? I appreciate the lack of italics in the UI of my system (which is running Mavericks, so has Lucida Grande), it keeps the menus clean and there are better ways to add emphasis where truly needed.

Not necessarily in the UI. But, as the default font, it was the one that a lot of apps would er... 'default' to. So, if you were writing a text document in such an app and then went to make some text italic you'd realise it wasn't available so would have to change fronts.... which could then affect the layout, no. of pages required etc.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#296

Post by Normille »

brnt wrote: post #148
Normille wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another long-time Mac user, who is also increasingly frustrated with how dumbed down & bloated OSX is becoming [I'm sticking on Mavericks for the foreseeable future and only 'upgraded' from El Capitán because more and more of my apps were breaking after applying updates]. With all OSX Finder's faults and all the annoyances of the OS, I still think it's miles ahead of any Linux distro I've tried to get on with. Two wo…

> Why, in 2021, does every single Linux desktop require me to open a file first to see what's inside it? KDE's file manager has a previewpane that you can enable if you wish.

A preview pane isn't exactly the same thing. OSX also has this in column view. But Quicklook will popup a modal window, which can be resized as big as you want, so you can get a clear view of the file content as good as actually opening it in its app, without the added overhead of actually having to launch [and quit] that app.

[and, if the file in question is a Photoshop or Illustrator document, you'll really appreciate how much time QuickLook saves you, by not having to wait for those behemoths to creak slowly into action]

There are also certain plugins which can enhance this functionality by providing extra info, such as pixel dimensions on image files, allowing browsing inside archives, syntax highlighting of source code files etc.

Maybe peoples' descriptions on here aren't doing Quicklook justice, for those who aren't familiar with it. Once you've used it for a while, you can't imagine why it's not a standard feature on any modern desktop OS.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#297

Post by Normille »

michaelpb wrote: post #232
mananaysiempre wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... And in GNOME’s Nautilus, Sushi https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/sushi does popup previews on spacebar more or less like the GP describes. (Though the whole thing, while useful in practice, feels like essentially a workaround for unnecessarily heavy and app-centric UIs. Having both an “Open” command and an “Open, but faster and does less” command feels like humans succumbing to the needs of computers, not computers…

> Though the whole thing, while useful in practice, feels like essentially a workaround for unnecessarily heavy and app-centric UIs. Right, I'm sometimes puzzled by how people approach their personal "deal-breakers" that prevent Mac->Lin (or Win->Lin) switch. Many of the issues are presented as though they are bugs or clear-cut missing features, but are in fact subjective preference statements. In this case the "spac…

  >Having both an “Open” command and an “Open, but faster and does less” command 

  >I personally see this particular feature as redundant (given there is already thumbnailing and a means to open files)
I'm guessing neither of you have actually used QuickLook and/or don't use apps like Photoshop or Illustrator which, even on a fast SSD equipped laptop can take around 30 seconds to open. QuickLook is much more than just a preview.

When I'm browsing a folder of my image files and can't remember which of dozens of files is the one I actually want, QuickLook lets me pop open a screen sized modal preview window, which is as good as having that file open in the app. If it's not the file I'm looking for, I hit the up or down arrows and the next or previous file's content is displayed in the already open preview popup. If some of those other image files were created by Illustrator, I've just saved myself an additional ~30 seconds, by not having to open that app too. And, once I find the image I want, I can open it in its associated app directly from a button in the top of the preview pane.

But, even if you're not a graphic designer, QuickLook has its uses for other types of document too. It can preview the content of source code files [with syntax highlighting] preview the rendered output of things like HTML, PDF, Markdown, AsciiDoc etc. You can even scroll through the pages of a multipage document.

This is another timesaver I use all the time. Being able to check the date or bottom line on a received PDF invoice, without opening it... being able to check whether I mentioned something in a letter I sent, without firing up a text editor or word processor... being able to see a rendered representation of what an HTML file contains... etc. etc.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#298

Post by mananaysiempre »

Normille wrote: post #297
michaelpb wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Though the whole thing, while useful in practice, feels like essentially a workaround for unnecessarily heavy and app-centric UIs. Right, I'm sometimes puzzled by how people approach their personal "deal-breakers" that prevent Mac->Lin (or Win->Lin) switch. Many of the issues are presented as though they are bugs or clear-cut missing features, but are in fact subjective preference statements. In this case the "spac…

>Having both an “Open” command and an “Open, but faster and does less” command >I personally see this particular feature as redundant (given there is already thumbnailing and a means to open files) I'm guessing neither of you have actually used QuickLook and/or don't use apps like Photoshop or Illustrator which, even on a fast SSD equipped laptop can take around 30 seconds to open. QuickLook is much more than just a…

No, that’s not what I meant. I do in fact use the previewer I linked to, and would be worse off without it.

I just think that it the apps that make it necessary shouldn’t do so: if Photoshop (or GIMP, or LibreOffice, or whatever) takes 30 seconds to open a file, the solution shouldn’t be to layer on yet another option and make me think whether I want to suffer that delay or reduced functionality, it should be to eliminate the delay.

Yet (as I’ve also said) I don’t think anybody came up with a plausible way to do so (even a purely technical one, disregarding economic incentives for app developers).

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#299

Post by ChrisRR »

wlesieutre wrote: post #16

Looking great, I've been a long time Mac user and I think I actually like elementary's evolution of the UI styling (from when it started as a pretty direct clone) better than I like Apple's in Big Sur. Tried elementary before (Luna and Freya IIRC) and while it hasn't replaced my Mac for development or my Windows desktop for gaming, I'm definitely keeping an eye on it. Can't help but notice that the Sound indicator's…

It's one of the issues with a company that's based so much of its marketing around its style. They have to be seen to be innovating to keep the interest, which unfortunately means that they have to overhaul their UI once every few years for better or worse.

Elementary doesn't have that issue and so can iterate with small quality of life improvements, without having to throw the baby out with the bathwater

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#300

Post by andrekandre »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #229
andrekandre wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

open source and free (as in beer) software are orthoginal/unrelated concepts you can have for-pay open source apps, no problem

??? Maybe if your userbase is tiny. As soon as it reaches even a 100-200 people someone will compile the source and distribute it for free or copy and resell it cheaper. they sure as heck aren’t orthogonal concepts in practice.

maybe im way out there but...

if you live/sell in a country that respects software copyright/license, then you can sue them or get a cease and desist for using it against your license (say prohibiting commercial derivative or violating your copyright without authorization)

and your software, if popular or lucrative, its going to get ripped off anyways like in the real app store (just look at the many clones of many apps), or just plain pirated like the myriad apps (photoshop, word et all) have since basically forever

am i way off-base?

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