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Default disappearing messages

signal.org

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Re: Default disappearing messages

#61

Post by stavros »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #44
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #41

I really like the idea of disappearing chat. I want my chats to be like an old landline telephone call. Hang up the phone and the conversation is over and what we both take from it are the parts we remember. Massive backlogs of text conversations are just added digital mental baggage in the already overstimulated digital world I live in. We already have email for things we need permanent record of.

My view is exactly the opposite. Having suffered from the "I thought you said..." problem (where other parties recall a verbal conversation differently than me, out of forgetfulness on either of our parts or to serve their interests) for so much of my life I welcome these ubiquitous devices that augment my memory and provide black and white clarity to what was actually said. I have no nostalgia for lossy recall and t…

When do you ever go back to double-check something someone has said, without them claiming they said something different?

If you only do it to prove you were right, stop doing that, it's not a good look.

Re: Default disappearing messages

#63

Post by JohnJamesRambo »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #44
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #41

I really like the idea of disappearing chat. I want my chats to be like an old landline telephone call. Hang up the phone and the conversation is over and what we both take from it are the parts we remember. Massive backlogs of text conversations are just added digital mental baggage in the already overstimulated digital world I live in. We already have email for things we need permanent record of.

My view is exactly the opposite. Having suffered from the "I thought you said..." problem (where other parties recall a verbal conversation differently than me, out of forgetfulness on either of our parts or to serve their interests) for so much of my life I welcome these ubiquitous devices that augment my memory and provide black and white clarity to what was actually said. I have no nostalgia for lossy recall and t…

Imagine someone recording, transcribing, and searchable indexing every phone call you have ever made or setting up a microphone for every conversation you have. I don’t think that is healthy and that is what text messaging is now. It’s more like a legal deposition.

Re: Default disappearing messages

#64

Post by Vinnl »

compsciphd wrote: post #35

as the app is open source, isn't it easy for someone to just create a fork that causes the messages to not disappear on the receiver end without the sender having any idea? I'd think a better idea would simply be to accept this as reality, and have a config entry or utility that lets you batch delete messages marked "ephemeral" (or better in this context, "unimportant").

The article addresses that:

> This is not for situations where your contact is your adversary — after all, if someone who receives a disappearing message really wants a record of it, they can always use another camera to take a photo of the screen before the message disappears. However, this is a nice way to automatically save storage space on your devices and limit the amount of conversation history that remains on your device if you should find yourself physically separated from it.

Re: Default disappearing messages

#65

Post by Vinnl »

afiori wrote: post #24
brnt wrote: post #4

I've had the timer on for about a year now, it's pretty nice not to have all that history accumulate. On my device or others'. One week was a bit short though, I'm glad they added 4 weeks recently.

Is there a "star message" option to save messages? It would be a very Marie Kondo approach to message history

Yeah, that would be nice. Looks like the feature request for that is here: https://community.signalusers.org/t/bookmarks-favorites-star...

Re: Default disappearing messages

#66

Post by Vinnl »

To emphasise, since people seem to be getting this wrong (since "default" is overloaded): this allows you to change the default action for your conversations, i.e. you can explicitly set new conversations you create to automatically disappear.

The default default (i.e. for new users) will still be set to keep messages.

Re: Default disappearing messages

#67

Post by lmm »

skinkestek wrote: post #57
lmm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [1] I know Telegram has a bad rep due to their home cooked crypto and maybe other stuff, but I like the app, I vaguely trust the author, and it works fine for me. Is that because you assume the NSA aren't reading all your messages or you don't mind if they are? Because the whole problem with dodgy crypto is that it still seems to "work fine for me" even when it isn't.

In my case it is to a large degree because I don't care. Disappearing messages are to prevent my kids reading the messages between me and their mother ;-) If NSA actually read my messages that would be kind of funny. If they have such a hack I'm sure they won't spend it on me or any other Joe Sixpack. Maybe ФСБ reads it but I have a hard time believing that too. My threat model consists of (not in any particular orde…

Secure systems are all alike; every insecure system is insecure in its own way. A messenger that has E2E encryption might not be secure, but a messenger that doesn't have E2E encryption is definitely insecure.

Not caring about your messages being read, or being willing to trust the operator of the service, is fine, but in that case I struggle to see why you'd pick Telegram, given that their whole selling point was about privacy and encryption when their encryption didn't actually work.

Re: Default disappearing messages

#68

Post by fitblipper »

Ive shifted to disappearing messages by default for about 4 months now and I like how it feels to communicate in this way! It feels more like talking directly with someone instead of collaboratively filling out a log. One mental shift is to remember that if something is said that I need to remember I need to write it down in a different place (much like I would need to if we were talking face to face).

I've also found it somewhat therapudic to let go of the past in other places as well. This included throwing away tshirts I got at a successful startup 10 years ago and even cleaning out my "digital closet" by delete my 10 years of location history on Google and old emails.

Playing legacy board games, which require destroyibg pieces of the game as it progresses so you can not back out or do it again a different way, introduced me to this feeling and I enjoy it.

Funnily enough, around the same time I made this mental change I also started keeping a journal.

Re: Default disappearing messages

#69

Post by afiori »

lmm wrote: post #37
afiori wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In all seriousness though, my messages are part of my memory. They're shared experience with my partner and a record of decisions. Thanks for saying this, I moved to Telegram[1] before I had a chance to learn about/suffer from Whatsapp take on backups, but it would have been devastating to lose years of messages with people over a bricked phone. [1] I know Telegram has a bad rep due to their home cooked crypto and…

> [1] I know Telegram has a bad rep due to their home cooked crypto and maybe other stuff, but I like the app, I vaguely trust the author, and it works fine for me. Is that because you assume the NSA aren't reading all your messages or you don't mind if they are? Because the whole problem with dodgy crypto is that it still seems to "work fine for me" even when it isn't.

For that same reasoning I support telegram more than signal. I simply do not see signal ever get to a widespread adoption, I do not see signal trying to get to a widespread adoption either; signal is not a messaging app it is a secure comunication app and for this they make a lot of tradeoffs.

An example is E2EE, it is a nice property but today it has significant UX implications that makes it bad default in my opinion for a popular personal messagin app; in other places it is essential, just not there.

Moreover the main threat model is not NSA hacking my device or the app's servers, it is app developer selling my data and governments making "lawful" requests to service providers. In both these metrics signal ranks better as far as I understand, but it is more of an individual choice.

If we are worried about the NSA the best thing to do is to move out of SMS/phone calls as fast as possible on mediums that do not allow passive monitoring and are likely to resist government pressure.

Re: Default disappearing messages

#70

Post by afiori »

lmm wrote: post #67
skinkestek wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my case it is to a large degree because I don't care. Disappearing messages are to prevent my kids reading the messages between me and their mother ;-) If NSA actually read my messages that would be kind of funny. If they have such a hack I'm sure they won't spend it on me or any other Joe Sixpack. Maybe ФСБ reads it but I have a hard time believing that too. My threat model consists of (not in any particular orde…

Secure systems are all alike; every insecure system is insecure in its own way. A messenger that has E2E encryption might not be secure, but a messenger that doesn't have E2E encryption is definitely insecure. Not caring about your messages being read, or being willing to trust the operator of the service, is fine, but in that case I struggle to see why you'd pick Telegram, given that their whole selling point was ab…

> when their encryption didn't actually work.

what are referring to here? I vaguely know about delivery bugs and protocol patches

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