Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science • Hacker News Board

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#261

Post by tremon » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 8:58 AM UTC

atrettel wrote: post #60

I have encountered something similar to this for a submission that I reviewed for a scientific journal. I will not list any names or give much detail past those generalities, but I pointed out that the authors were misusing a particular technical term. In my review I defined the term and explained it briefly. I asked the authors to revise their submission accordingly. The paper was not bad but the authors did not kno…

The solution seems simple though: do not publish in a language you do not master. Get a co-author or fellow researcher who does.

Isn't that what journals are supposed to be for? To help you reach a wider audience?

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#262

Post by tremon » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 9:03 AM UTC

dan-robertson wrote: post #239

wombatmobile wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What the authors should have done was ... In the absence of an explicit directive or request from you, given that the authors are from a different culture, how do you expect them to know what was required by them? I don't mean to be snarky or accusative. Your comment was thoughtful, articulate and detailed, which tells me you are a sophisticated communicator.

My understanding is that something like the following happened: 1. authors submit a paper with expository sections about (eg) some materials being flammable and others inflammable 2. reviewer tries to explain that they have incorrectly understood the meaning of the terms, explains the meaning carefully and maybe suggests the terms they might mean. 3. Authors copy in the explanation and maybe replace incorrect usages…

3. Authors copy in the explanation verbatim

4. Rejection

5. Authors replace terms in verbatim copy with weird tortured phrases

6. Authors submit to other journals, get published

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#263

Post by atrettel » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 12:18 PM UTC

kome wrote: post #256

atrettel wrote: post #60

I have encountered something similar to this for a submission that I reviewed for a scientific journal. I will not list any names or give much detail past those generalities, but I pointed out that the authors were misusing a particular technical term. In my review I defined the term and explained it briefly. I asked the authors to revise their submission accordingly. The paper was not bad but the authors did not kno…

But why did you call them for plagiarizing a private note, a confidential review? I mean... In the end they just used your wording to improve their paper, for a concept they already mastered. And you said the paper was good, otherwise. IMHO they acted ethically.

I believe I've answered your questions in two of my previous posts:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28112208

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28112358

To sum up, the authors did not just use my wording for a short portion. They copied an entire paragraph of my review nearly verbatim. Both the journal and I thought that the authors acted unethically. They violated one of the ethical standards of the journal regarding plagiarism, and these ethical standards were made available to them when they submitted the paper. Those were the rules that I had to evaluate them with for the review, so my hands were tied in some sense. I would also quibble with saying that they mastered the concept, because I really have no way to gauge their understanding if they just copy my own words.