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The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

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Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#141
post #136

There are 4 broad scenarios according to which (or a combination thereof) the climate emergency will develop: 1) In a giant case of prisoners' dilemma, the humanity will coordinate worldwide and rise to the occasion, massively cut emissions, tax carbon, build out renewables, etc. 2) There will be massive technological breakthru-s in carbon capture and/or energy production and/or geo-engineering (and I am not talking…

Thanks for distilling the situation so well. I’ve been stuck obsessing over the doomsday scenario. It’s easy to forget there’s other possible futures that might lessen my anxiety and push me to make certain helpful personal and career choices.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#142
post #61
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one reason I hope it continues to be socially acceptable in the U.S. to wear masks. I've wanted to wear one even pre-covid for pollution and pollen, but you would get very weird looks, or even stopped by security in some cases.

I still wear mine. Recently visited family who live in $RED_VOTER area. Got a bunch of looks from the locals. Nobody said anything - and who cares if they did? I've learned to say "fuck off" in multiple languages (thank you internet!)

“I have an immune disease you asshole.”

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#143

Kim Stanley Robinson's recent book The Ministry For the Future starts with a very disturbing scenario: A heatwave with a "web bulb" temperature of 35 Celsius. It turns out, in those temperatures, even young and healthy people can't survive. Combined with power outages, as happens in the book, everyone living under such a heat wave will likely die. It's looking increasingly likely that such heatwaves are possible in t…

> Combined with power outages, as happens in the book, everyone living under such a heat wave will likely die.

That's an exaggeration. Extreme heat (including heat waves that exceed this threshold) happen semi-regularly, and the death rate when they occur is nowhere near 100%. More like 0.1% or less.

Electrically-powered air conditioning is not the only way to cool a human body.

Simply escaping to an underground or substantially enclosed area is sufficient for periods of up to a few days, or even weeks depending on the thickness of the walls. Car parks, cellars, caves, etc... all retain a relatively constant temperature irrespective of temporary swings of the air temperature outside.

Similarly, immersing oneself in a body of water below about 36 C is also sufficient, and that's typically available even if the local air temperature and humidity exceeds safe levels. E.g.: Rivers "carry" the cold down from mountains, and are safe havens during temperature extremes. Even the local pool is sufficient, because water has such a massive thermal capacity that it won't heat up anywhere near as fast as the air around it.

At times like this you see people filling up their bathtubs and just hanging out in there until things blow over.

More worrying is what happens to wildlife. Some animals simply can't escape like humans and most animals can. For example in Australia a recent heatwave killed something like half of all flying foxes!

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#144

Similar question to this that I've been wondering this wildfire season -- at what point is AQI (Air Quality Index) too severe for human tolerance? The scale tops out at 500, what happens to a person if the air is even worse than that? Some sensors near Medford, OR are reading in the upper 400's and even low 500's -- what happens if it hits what would be the 1000's if the scale went that high? I'm mostly thinking of p…

I’m speaking out of my depth here but I believe exposure related disease is based on the particle density over time. Particles can clog the respiratory system, reducing blood oxygen and introducing free radicals. To a large extent the body is able to remove the debris, but if there is too much buildup due to prolonged exposure to high AQI then it can be difficult to recover without intervention. I was at a chain drug…

Sounds like oxygen bars at home.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_bar

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#145

Similar question to this that I've been wondering this wildfire season -- at what point is AQI (Air Quality Index) too severe for human tolerance? The scale tops out at 500, what happens to a person if the air is even worse than that? Some sensors near Medford, OR are reading in the upper 400's and even low 500's -- what happens if it hits what would be the 1000's if the scale went that high? I'm mostly thinking of p…

Medford resident here. We experienced a few days of 900+ last summer. It's very bad. Even in the 400's, it feels like chain smoking. At 900 the air is thick enough to block out most of sun. I have no idea what this has done to my health, but I guarantee it's not good.

Wow. It hit 140 where I live and I immediately ran to the hardware store to buy better AC filters, and more air purifiers. How are you handling it in a practical sense?

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there’s a heat wave and drought the only way is to dig tunnels and build cities underground. Water can be imported from the ocean (rising sea levels) and desalinated using solar/thermal power above ground and feed an aquifer!

On a purely technical basis that may seem reasonable. On a "we're talking about human beings here" basis what do you do about all the people who feel that the selection and admission process was corrupt and that they've been robbed of their chance at safety? Do you expect them to meekly acquiesce?

I imagine once the first big wave where a nation hits the wetbulb temperature and there is a mass die off you will see panic in surrounding nations and they will scramble to a border. What will nations do with millions of people knocking at the fence wanting in? Uncertain times for sure.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#147
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i probably have a comment somewhere recently, but singapore is already in WBT >35 conditions in the day. it eases to around 30 at night or when rain falls. as long as power is running, it's actually fine in this country, but that's because we've designed our living space around the heat. it is entirely possible to never be exposed to the sun in a normal day in the life of a working resident here if you stay in the ri…

Having lived in Singapore for five years (2012-2017) (and worked out in the field for about 50% of that time) I can say that Singapore is one of the milder places to live. It never ever gets particularly hot (I genuinely can't recall a 100+ degree day in the entire time I was there), and the humidity, while, "sticky" is never really extreme. The thing that gets to you is that the climate never seems to change (with t…

> I can say that Singapore is one of the milder places to live. It never ever gets particularly hot

Singapore is almost exactly on the equator. UV readings get up to 11 each day (extreme), whereas the most I ever saw in say SF was 5.

Your experience is one experience, mine is that it's a sauna every day of the year. I've experienced extremely hot days in terms of subjective experience of WBT as explained in article. My gf, a local here, also decries the heat. I personally cannot go running before 5:30pm. I got a major sunburn on my back at 5:30pm the time I tried running shirtless at east coast park. Granted, I am pale.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#148

Kim Stanley Robinson's recent book The Ministry For the Future starts with a very disturbing scenario: A heatwave with a "web bulb" temperature of 35 Celsius. It turns out, in those temperatures, even young and healthy people can't survive. Combined with power outages, as happens in the book, everyone living under such a heat wave will likely die. It's looking increasingly likely that such heatwaves are possible in t…

> especially in poor tropical countries that don't have a stable infrastructure to cool most people during such a heatwave

Like California? They already can’t keep the lights on with rolling blackouts happening every year. If one of those blackouts happens during a severe heatwave, it could be serious. Not to mention the serious economic cost of having a third-world quality grid in what should be one of the union’s most prosperous states.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#149
post #137
post #136

There are 4 broad scenarios according to which (or a combination thereof) the climate emergency will develop: 1) In a giant case of prisoners' dilemma, the humanity will coordinate worldwide and rise to the occasion, massively cut emissions, tax carbon, build out renewables, etc. 2) There will be massive technological breakthru-s in carbon capture and/or energy production and/or geo-engineering (and I am not talking…

I think the most likely scenario is 5) The climate changes, and humanity adapts to live in the new climate.

That is somewhere between 3 and 4.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#150
post #148

Kim Stanley Robinson's recent book The Ministry For the Future starts with a very disturbing scenario: A heatwave with a "web bulb" temperature of 35 Celsius. It turns out, in those temperatures, even young and healthy people can't survive. Combined with power outages, as happens in the book, everyone living under such a heat wave will likely die. It's looking increasingly likely that such heatwaves are possible in t…

> especially in poor tropical countries that don't have a stable infrastructure to cool most people during such a heatwave Like California? They already can’t keep the lights on with rolling blackouts happening every year. If one of those blackouts happens during a severe heatwave, it could be serious. Not to mention the serious economic cost of having a third-world quality grid in what should be one of the union’s m…

I think California's air is too dry to get to the wet-bulb temp limit.
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