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Why I Hate Science

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21–30 of 41 posts

Re: Why I Hate Science

#21
"It's not unusual in school to hear this religion of science put another way, science is the beautiful application of reason and logic that slowly and inexorably moves from ignorance to truth.

"Bullshit."

At this point, I stopped taking you seriously.

No. That is exactly what science is: an ongoing dialogue between scientists, using experiments to collect data to validate (improve certainty of) or disprove theories, theories which over time paint increasingly accurate pictures of how the thing we know as reality really works.

The garbage claims you ascribe to scientists are usually not made by scientists; instead, the claims usually come from the media who either don't understand the underlying science, or who do understand it but are sensationalizing the scientific result in an effort to get more people interested.

A problem only arises when Joe Sixpacks (who not only dominate society but Congress as well), who are completely ignorant of science, end up using media reporting of science to make decisions.

Re: Why I Hate Science

#22

"It's not unusual in school to hear this religion of science put another way, science is the beautiful application of reason and logic that slowly and inexorably moves from ignorance to truth. "Bullshit." At this point, I stopped taking you seriously. No. That is exactly what science is: an ongoing dialogue between scientists, using experiments to collect data to validate (improve certainty of) or disprove theories,…

I found that part annoying as well, he goes on with one of his main points:

"What I'm concerned about is that the average scientific layman reader -- the person who assumes they are just as up-to-date on scientific matters as possible -- has no freaking idea where the real science leaves off and where the bullshit begins."

Which I completely agree with. There is the scientific method which strives to discover truth though rigor and their is the use of 'science' in rhetoric which attempts to lend truthiness to speculation or wishful thinking.

The blog post would have benefited greatly from taking this version of it, pulling out all of the actual things the author wanted to say, and then laying those out in a more cohesive fashion.

For those interested in the abuse of numbers in rhetoric I can reccomend the book 'Proofiness' [1] which talks about ways people abuse mathematics as a rhetorical tool. Science is one of those things that also helps lay people feel better about believing in something.

I agree with the original author's disappointment as to how it is being abused. But I also note that the author gets confused between how journalists report science vs what the science actually said. It is always a good idea to track down the original paper or study and read it to see what the journalist left out or simply missed.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/dp/0670022160/

Re: Why I Hate Science

#23
This guy seems to not understand the difference between science, publishing in science, and science reporting for mainstream audiences. They're very different things.

Publishing sources in newspapers would be one of the most beneficial things they can do.

Re: Why I Hate Science

#24

This guy seems to not understand the difference between science, publishing in science, and science reporting for mainstream audiences. They're very different things. Publishing sources in newspapers would be one of the most beneficial things they can do.

I think he understands the difference. His point is that most people don't.

Re: Why I Hate Science

#25
After the third or fourth paragraph I started expecting an argument for creationism and against global warming. It's never explicitly made and it's not really clear what the point of the article is but there's something about this kind of scientific-strawman knocking that smacks of revisionism.

Re: Why I Hate Science

#26
post #24

This guy seems to not understand the difference between science, publishing in science, and science reporting for mainstream audiences. They're very different things. Publishing sources in newspapers would be one of the most beneficial things they can do.

I think he understands the difference. His point is that most people don't .

I don't think so. Take this statement for example:

Science needs a new set of ethics. It needs to be clear when reporting medical studies what types of methods were used, what was brought into the study a priori, the sample size, and how it was reviewed. Scientists should be clear when they are speaking on matters of reproducible science -- such as the absorption spectrum of CO2, the Greenhouse principle, the fact that man changes his environment, and black-body physics -- and when they are totally speculating, like predicting the global temperature in 100 years. These are different types of information. (I hate to use global warming, but it's in vogue.)

First, Isn't what he wants in medical studies completely standard practice? I regularly read NEJM and their standard format is: Background, Methods, Results, Conclusion. I feel like he's getting his medical science from the NYTimes, which is fine as a starting point, but those are articles written by reporters. Find the actual study to see what the scientist did.

Second, if you actually read the "speculative" studies, rather than just watching Fox News you'll typically see how they come to the conclusion of the temperature in 100 years. They detail and construct a model, sometimes via simulation. It's not that anyone is saying, "This is what the temperature will be guaranteed", rather it's saying, "here's a model we constructed. We tested it on historical data and it's accurate to this extent. This is what we see looking forward. These are the factors that contribute most to this result." That's how science is done. That's how I can hypothesize the sun will come up tomorrow -- I have historical data, I create a model of the solar system, gravity, inertia, etc... and say based on that I think the sun will come up again tomorrow, and based on my models I think it will be colder in the winter than the summer. What he considers "speculative" science is just normal science, but where the models aren't as well understood, and part of science is strengthening the models.

I just feel like he doesn't get science at all. When you don't really understand something, you're more likely to hate it.

Re: Why I Hate Science

#27
post #19

Daniel, please stop using link-bait titles and openers. It makes it far more difficult for me to evaluate the actual ideas you're talking about, because I have to separate the link-bait stuff from your real points. (The "bait" from the "switch.") That takes more mental effort than I'm willing to afford an essay that starts off being disingenuous.

But without the link-bait, why would anyone ever post them to HN?

[EDIT: typo fixed]

Re: Why I Hate Science

#28
post #4

Part of his rant is about things that are generally not considered to be "science". Economics is usually categorized separately as "social science" (look! Wikipedia agrees! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics ). It's ironic that someone who "no beg[s], scientists to adopt much stricter standards of disseminating information" is so cavalier about lumping together very different fields of study. This appears to be w…

I was told once: "If it is dictated by the universe then it is science. If you get a vote, it is not."

Re: Why I Hate Science

#30

  ...but at the end of the day you can make the argument that 
  everything about personalities are evolutionary in nature.   
  ADHD? Useful for surviving in the jungle. 
I've read about the "hunter vs. farmer" theory on ADD/ADHD. So far, from what I've read, no one has agreed that ADD/ADHD is an evolutionary response to/for hunting. Rather, it may have made the hunter quicker or more aware of surroundings, and thus made a better hunter overall.

It seems like the author is dumping on people for not getting it right, when he is not really getting the context correct themselves.

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