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The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

advances.sciencemag.org

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Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#71

Post by masklinn »

boplicity wrote: post #2

Kim Stanley Robinson's recent book The Ministry For the Future starts with a very disturbing scenario: A heatwave with a "web bulb" temperature of 35 Celsius. It turns out, in those temperatures, even young and healthy people can't survive. Combined with power outages, as happens in the book, everyone living under such a heat wave will likely die. It's looking increasingly likely that such heatwaves are possible in t…

> It turns out, in those temperatures, even young and healthy people can't survive.

Of note: that’s literal, even doing nothing and sitting in front of a fan you can’t cool down.

And do one of the issues 35 WBT “hides” is that any activity lowers the heat stress threshold. Sugarcane workers are already dying due to heat stress today, and have been for a while. There’s been an “epidemic” of “kidney disease” in central american sugarcane fields for a decade now, with young men showing rates of kidney diseases 15x the norm.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#72

Post by JPKab »

poorjohnmacafee wrote: post #52
princeb wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i probably have a comment somewhere recently, but singapore is already in WBT >35 conditions in the day. it eases to around 30 at night or when rain falls. as long as power is running, it's actually fine in this country, but that's because we've designed our living space around the heat. it is entirely possible to never be exposed to the sun in a normal day in the life of a working resident here if you stay in the ri…

Yes, I sometimes feel like I'm at death's door when jogging outdoors. Myself and some Westerners I know haven't "adapted", even after years being here. The strategy is just always have ice water in hand if outdoors for prolonged time. I sometimes get laughed at for not adjusting to the heat, but I think it's just too much for some genetic lineages from outside tropics. Unfortunately a large percentage of folks in HDB…

I used to work construction and when I was a teenager I worked on farms growing up in the rural South.

If you work outside all day you adapt very quickly to it. During the adjustment period you are chugging water all the time but you eventually adjust. It's a circulation adaptation that's been observed with special forces recruits.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#73

Post by suzzer99 »

boplicity wrote: post #2

Kim Stanley Robinson's recent book The Ministry For the Future starts with a very disturbing scenario: A heatwave with a "web bulb" temperature of 35 Celsius. It turns out, in those temperatures, even young and healthy people can't survive. Combined with power outages, as happens in the book, everyone living under such a heat wave will likely die. It's looking increasingly likely that such heatwaves are possible in t…

If the water is still running - can't people spend a lot of time in the bathtub?

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#74

Post by XorNot »

nostrademons wrote: post #47
newbamboo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we know based on the science we’re not going to see a stabilization in temperatures for at least 30 years under the best scenarios. We should focus on ways to save these lives. Solar powered swamp coolers is what is I’m thinking about. They require water however and that’s going to be as big of a problem as heat. Already is in many places.

Migration. Large parts of the taiga and permafrost are about to open up to human habitation. All the folks in the Middle East and India should move north in search of better weather. Human societies have been historically very bad at handling large scale migrations, but it's about to become necessary.

I am sure this will cause no serious issues whatsoever.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#75

Post by andi999 »

poorjohnmacafee wrote: post #52
princeb wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i probably have a comment somewhere recently, but singapore is already in WBT >35 conditions in the day. it eases to around 30 at night or when rain falls. as long as power is running, it's actually fine in this country, but that's because we've designed our living space around the heat. it is entirely possible to never be exposed to the sun in a normal day in the life of a working resident here if you stay in the ri…

Yes, I sometimes feel like I'm at death's door when jogging outdoors. Myself and some Westerners I know haven't "adapted", even after years being here. The strategy is just always have ice water in hand if outdoors for prolonged time. I sometimes get laughed at for not adjusting to the heat, but I think it's just too much for some genetic lineages from outside tropics. Unfortunately a large percentage of folks in HDB…

When you use AC during nighttime you never get adapted to the heat. Try slowly phasing it out.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#76

Post by Fordec »

Causality1 wrote: post #10
boplicity wrote: post #2

Kim Stanley Robinson's recent book The Ministry For the Future starts with a very disturbing scenario: A heatwave with a "web bulb" temperature of 35 Celsius. It turns out, in those temperatures, even young and healthy people can't survive. Combined with power outages, as happens in the book, everyone living under such a heat wave will likely die. It's looking increasingly likely that such heatwaves are possible in t…

I wonder how practical it would be to sink 30 foot deep concrete tube shelters with a ladder and a lid. They could serve as emergency daytime shelters and someone could climb out at night to search for a location with working power or cooler weather.

I do wonder, if wet bulb temperature is a function of temperature and humidity (assuming reducing temperature requires electricity usually) will the real trick to reduce mortality will be to reduce relative humidity in a confined space. A supply of emergency desiccants somewhere at home may be an avenue worth exploring.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#77

Post by fencepost »

zabatuvajdka wrote: post #43
boplicity wrote: post #2

Kim Stanley Robinson's recent book The Ministry For the Future starts with a very disturbing scenario: A heatwave with a "web bulb" temperature of 35 Celsius. It turns out, in those temperatures, even young and healthy people can't survive. Combined with power outages, as happens in the book, everyone living under such a heat wave will likely die. It's looking increasingly likely that such heatwaves are possible in t…

If there’s a heat wave and drought the only way is to dig tunnels and build cities underground. Water can be imported from the ocean (rising sea levels) and desalinated using solar/thermal power above ground and feed an aquifer!

On a purely technical basis that may seem reasonable.

On a "we're talking about human beings here" basis what do you do about all the people who feel that the selection and admission process was corrupt and that they've been robbed of their chance at safety? Do you expect them to meekly acquiesce?

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#78

Post by wruza »

Igelau wrote: post #40
briantakita wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who own a car in Yakutsk must leave it running all winter, or the oil will freeze & cause engine damage. A toolbox is always present in the car, since being stranded on the road, without cell phone signal, will lead to death within a couple of hours. Having a part of your ears exposed for 15 minutes will lead to frostbite. Cold is no joke...

In other words, a fire.

I’m afraid that you’re taking gp comment too lightly. The described frosts are really dangerous, it’s not your regular get-two-blankets cold. One may die or become disabled in minutes after a technical failure, which is similar to failure of an AC. A little camp fire and running in circles will barely help you, because animals become frozen literally mid-step in it, https://www.google.com/search?q=animals+frozen+solid&tbm=isc... (dead animals warning)

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#79

Post by Marsymars »

briantakita wrote: post #35
pjerem wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you clicked on the link you are commenting about, you would have learn that we are talking about 35°C wet bulb. Which will kill you, whatever your age, your health, or what you try to do to overcome it. Basically, without air conditioning, so without energy, you are dead. Cold, instead, will not kill you if you are able to cover yourself with a sufficient coat and/or you are able to start some fire. Most places in…

People who own a car in Yakutsk must leave it running all winter, or the oil will freeze & cause engine damage. A toolbox is always present in the car, since being stranded on the road, without cell phone signal, will lead to death within a couple of hours. Having a part of your ears exposed for 15 minutes will lead to frostbite. Cold is no joke...

Couple notes from someone who lives somewhere less cold than Yakutsk, but still cold:

* Synthetic oil won't really ever freeze. Other car components will freeze up prior to oil ever freezing - notably the battery will freeze if it's cold enough, which will permanently damage it. Most any other car component won't suffer permanent damage from cold.

* A toolbox isn't the best option to rely on if you're driving in a remote area in the cold (I'm basically incapable of wrenching anything at -40 other than a tire change) - if I'm driving in the winter I carry (among some other things) a) a sleeping bag that's warm enough to keep me alive indefinitely given the shelter that a car provides, b) snacks and water that I can thaw with body heat in my sleeping bag and c) a PLB that, in a life or death situation, I can activate regardless of cell service.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance (2020)

#80

Post by newbamboo »

saeranv wrote: post #4
newbamboo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we know based on the science we’re not going to see a stabilization in temperatures for at least 30 years under the best scenarios. We should focus on ways to save these lives. Solar powered swamp coolers is what is I’m thinking about. They require water however and that’s going to be as big of a problem as heat. Already is in many places.

Swamp coolers cool based on evaporative cooling: water evaporating into dry air reduces the (dry bulb) temperature of the air. So with high wet bulb temperatures indicating air is already saturated with moisture, the swamp cooler won't work.

Dehumidifiers are a thing. I presume that having water and electricity is a bigger problem for most people, but I’d love to be educated more on the problem, if you have links or literature.
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