Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned • Hacker News Board

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#311

Post by IgorPartola » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 6:42 PM UTC

tjic wrote: post #278

robjohnson wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be the crux of the issue right here. When I heard the airbnb business model, this type of situation was the first thing that came to my mind. Airbnb absolutely does provide an incredible service, but these types of issues need to be solved. A 24/7 line should be step 1.

> When I heard the airbnb business model, this type of situation was the first thing that came to my mind Same here. Great model, glad it works for some people, but the only price I'd take to rent out my house - with my personal items in it - is the price of replacing my house and personal items.

Too bad I have to post this instead of just showing my approval of these comments by upvoting them

Exactly. No insurance will cover this type of transaction if the informally renting out your place is illegal in your locale. On top of that, you have to worry about your own safety. 99.999% of the time you'll be fine, but taking that risk is a very personal choice.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#312

Post by Nutella2 » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 6:42 PM UTC

hnsmurf wrote: post #241

Does homeowner's/renter's insurance cover the property damage from renting out your place?

No, it doesn't cover illegal transactions. In many places the Airbnb rentals are violations of local or state hotel laws. Even in places not covered by those kinds of laws, it's unlikely that insurance for owners and renters of a private home covers commercial services in the home. Of course everyone should check their own policy to be sure.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#313

Post by Timothee » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 6:56 PM UTC

Omnipresent wrote: post #304

Timothee wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most likely admins since, IIRC, a submitter has only a short time window to edit a submission.

not cool.

Well… I don't know.

Sure, it's easy to think "look, YC changed the title because it gave a bad light to a YC company!" and that might be part of it.

But the truth is that this story only got the spotlight here because it had AirBnB in the submission title, but the events it describes are not really specific to AirBnB. It could have happened through many other rental services.

Also it's typically frowned upon changing the title of a post for the submission.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#314

Post by Kadin » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 6:57 PM UTC

mikecaron wrote: post #194

hammock wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emotionally devastating story, but it seems like there is an easy solution to this. Have AirBnb contract include an insurance policy (superseding the homeowners insurance) for the time of rental. Also, have Airbnb keep credit card info on hand and hold guest responsible for any damage. Pretty standard business practices.

What about regular homeowner's insurance? Surely there can be policies that can cover this kind of thing which a host can obtain on their own. AirBnB doesn't have to muddy their business model with doing insurance, let the insurance people do this.

There is virtually zero chance that a standard homeowner's insurance policy is going to cover an AirBNB-style rental. Rental insurance might -- I'm sure there are policies made for this -- but most people aren't going to have that kind of coverage unless it's bundled in some way with AirBNB as a value-add.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#315

Post by bignoggins » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 7:01 PM UTC

My wife and I been traveling around the world staying at airbnb's for the last 4 months (www.shenventure.com is our travel blog). During our stay in Hong Kong, our host required a photocopy of our passport or driver's license. I think this was a clever deterrent on his part.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#316

Post by chris1024 » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 7:03 PM UTC

Is this real? It sounds like a fictional story.It's awfully flowery prose for someone who was just victimized and "laying in fetal position in her stairwell." Nowhere does it say this isn't fiction. Awful lot of buzz and no further response from the author?

The journalist who commented on the blog who checked with SFPD was unable to find the case.

So -- real or fiction? Someone call in SNOPES!

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#317

Post by Kadin » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 7:05 PM UTC

wisty wrote: post #61

VladRussian wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Um, this is incorrect. Hotels are vandalized all the time... that is the point why they take down your credit card data before giving you the keys. Your vandalizing after that is just an entertainment your card will be charged for. >The security measures you suggest won't stop that sort of attacker. so you think the attacker has perfect credit history and there is absolutely no sense in checking it?

I'd expect they used a stolen card (or a stolen card number, more likely). There's almost no way anyone could be stupid enough to do that with their own card.

Well the solution there is not to accept a credit card as a form of identification.

I check into lots of hotels and about 50% of the time they require an actual government-issued photo ID; I assume for room-trashing situations and the probably more-common situation where somebody racks up a huge bill and then steals away in the middle of the night leaving nothing but a stolen CC number.

It's a lot more difficult, and the legal penalties are much steeper, for forging a government-issued identity document than for using a prepaid credit card with a false name on it.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#318

Post by varunsrin » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 7:17 PM UTC

Can someone please explain why the post name was changed? If it was to 'protect' AirBnB I find that in poor taste - this is a legitimate problem that occurred with the service, though it is likely not a specific problem. if the OP (foxit) requested or made this change, let us know.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#319

Post by varunsrin » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 7:21 PM UTC

Timothee wrote: post #313

Omnipresent wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not cool.

Well… I don't know. Sure, it's easy to think "look, YC changed the title because it gave a bad light to a YC company!" and that might be part of it. But the truth is that this story only got the spotlight here because it had AirBnB in the submission title, but the events it describes are not really specific to AirBnB. It could have happened through many other rental services. Also it's typically frowned upon changing…

"But the truth is that this story only got the spotlight here because it had AirBnB in the submission title, but the events it describes are not really specific to AirBnB. It could have happened through many other rental services."

That doesn't make the original title in any way inaccurate. Is this like saying, oh my Google apps account was compromised and all my business data was leaked - but really its unfair to post a story "My Google account was hacked", it could have happened to any online service.

A poor excuse for deflecting what is obviously a problem with their service. Is YC simply going to moderate posts about their own startups at will? Especially when everything is, fact for fact, true?

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#320

Post by kragen » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 7:42 PM UTC

michaeldhopkins wrote: post #146

varunsrin wrote: post #26

I always found AirBnB's model based on a surprising amount of trust - I for one would never be comfortable just handing over they keys to my place to a total stranger. Even if they didn't ransack my place completely, as happened to the unfortunate author - I would be concerned about unintentional damage to my property that I might not discover till too late. Renting out something as private as my primary place of res…

As the service expands, regular people's homes (with unrestorable personal value and charm) will be replaced with commercial properties using airBnB as just another advertising channel. When that happens the fresh appeal will be gone and airBnB will be successful if they have become popular and stable enough that an airBnB listing is mandatory for people in the property management business.

> As the service expands, regular people's homes (with unrestorable personal value and charm) will be replaced with commercial properties using airBnB as just another advertising channel.

This could happen (especially if people get scared off by one-in-a-million crimes like this one) but it isn't economically rational. The marginal cost of having someone stay in your spare bedroom is often very small, even negative. This is never the case for commercial hotels.

I would go as far as to say that commercial hotels only exist at all because of an information deficiency: on the traveler's side, about the available spare bedrooms, and on the host's side, about the trustworthiness of the traveler. (Except in exceptional cases, say, Gualeguaychú, which has enormous tourism, dwarfing the city's population for a few weeks a year, and nothing the rest of the time. But I still stayed in a spare room with some random family I met on the street when I went there for Carnaval, not in a hotel.)

It occurs to me that the people with the strongest incentives to trash someone's apartment like this would be hotel owners and managers. Many of them might not be willing or able to do it themselves, but they could certainly hire someone else.