Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Elementary OS 6 Odin

blog.elementary.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 321 posts

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#231

Post by azinman2 »

jcelerier wrote: post #82
azinman2 wrote: post #75

I tried eOS 5. The screenshots made it look the most user friendly of Linux distros (read: Apple knock off), and at first it feels that way. But it quickly starts to show how shallow that knock off is… and it’s a huge undertaking so I don’t blame them. First is what happens once you run anything that isn’t made by them — all of the sudden totally different UIs. Linux has this problem in spades because there is no sta…

> First is what happens once you run anything that isn’t made by them — all of the sudden totally different UIs That's a weird criticism. How many competing UI frameworks with completely different look'n'feel are there in a default win10 install ? How many control panels and file dialogs ?

Windows 10 is a disaster. Not exactly something to emulate, but at least it’s going to be some vintage of windows. So copy and paste will be consistent and not change ctrl versus meta versus select & middle mouse button. Linux is all over the place. I can’t even have consistent hidpi support without manual tweaks, and even then certain apps layouts become very strange.

I’m really comparing to macOS, which clearly is what eOS is trying to be.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#232

Post by michaelpb »

mananaysiempre wrote: post #195
brnt wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why, in 2021, does every single Linux desktop require me to open a file first to see what's inside it? KDE's file manager has a previewpane that you can enable if you wish.

... And in GNOME’s Nautilus, Sushi https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/sushi does popup previews on spacebar more or less like the GP describes. (Though the whole thing, while useful in practice, feels like essentially a workaround for unnecessarily heavy and app-centric UIs. Having both an “Open” command and an “Open, but faster and does less” command feels like humans succumbing to the needs of computers, not computers…

> Though the whole thing, while useful in practice, feels like essentially a workaround for unnecessarily heavy and app-centric UIs.

Right, I'm sometimes puzzled by how people approach their personal "deal-breakers" that prevent Mac->Lin (or Win->Lin) switch. Many of the issues are presented as though they are bugs or clear-cut missing features, but are in fact subjective preference statements.

In this case the "spacebar to preview" feature might be a must-have for some, but to others it might not be important, and maybe even to some be perceived as an anti-feature. I personally see this particular feature as redundant (given there is already thumbnailing and a means to open files) and unintuitive, and thus just more clutter. But I also don't care too much, since I could always disable it if it came pre-enabled.

The worst cases of this is when some insist that not only is their particular preference the The One Way, but that stubborn Linux DE developers are somehow at fault for not implementing The One Way, and that's why Linux will never be popular. There are plenty of things that might keep "normies" from switching, but random obscure DE features are not them. People tolerate FAR worse UX disasters than any major Linux DE.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#233

Post by opan »

doubled112 wrote: post #176
OJFord wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I've heard of it before this evening, trust it'll get updates, it has a decent privacy/security record, I know where things are if I'm asked for help, ... But mostly it's the first, I couldn't possibly have picked GNOME Web before this conversation, I didn't know it existed!

It used to go by Epiphany, but that's probably an even worse name.

I prefer it being less generic.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#234

Post by opan »

mackrevinack wrote: post #107
bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a sign of how crappy mainstream UI design has gotten that the thing that is really drawing me to elementary OS are the gradients, shadows, and edges that give its UI sense of depth -- not the Linux underpinnings, multitouch, or "App Store". It makes the UI 1000x easier to grok at a glance than the flat crap Microsoft and Apple have been pushing out over the past few years, and just plain looks good! I'd love for…

pop os puts a big ass orange line around the active window. its probably a bit gaudy but i love it. it makes it so much easier to see where you're at, even at it the corner of your eye. i don't know if i could go back to other os's where the active window only gets a slightly darker drop shadow than the other windows.

Most tiling WMs have a similar feature, and you can adjust the size/color of the border and if it appears on all sides of the window or just some of them. I use Sway and have my border set to an aquamarine color. The border also gets used to show which way your container is split / where a new window will appear if you're focused on that window.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#235

Post by Nullabillity »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #230
Nullabillity wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Movies don't tend to be able to spy on you, for one. Nor are they generally expected to be maintained over time.

I have no idea what you’re getting at. How are movies a counterpoint? Movies and streaming services are paid products. And no one is forcing you to make software that spies on people as an indie dev? In fact if you are able to make a living through selling software you have less incentive to collect user data and sell it as a revenue stream. Most products that are free are those where the your data is being sold for…

> And no one is forcing you to make software that spies on people as an indie dev?

This is the problem with your argument. You're looking at it from the developer's perspective, rather than the user's. As the developer you have this choice, and you know which choice you've made. As a user, all I have is your word (which is worth nothing if I don't already have a good reason to trust you).

As a user, source code access is important, for a number of reasons:

1. It gives both users and third parties a way to verify your claims

2. As it turns out, transparency tends to discourage bad behaviour in the first place

3. Users can fork if you no longer maintain the project according to their standards (abandonment, price hikes, bundling malware, and so on)

None of those reasons are direct improvements for you as a developer, but they're a big part of why I am reluctant to adopt proprietary software (free or paid).

> How are movies a counterpoint? Movies and streaming services are paid products.

Yes? I am less reluctant to pay for a movie because they don't demand the same privileges.

> In fact if you are able to make a living through selling software you have less incentive to collect user data and sell it as a revenue stream. Most products that are free are those where the your data is being sold for is exactly that reason.

On the other hand, reality shows that many (most) commercial developers are perfectly happy to pick both.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#238

Post by lordgroff »

michaelpb wrote: post #232
mananaysiempre wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... And in GNOME’s Nautilus, Sushi https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/sushi does popup previews on spacebar more or less like the GP describes. (Though the whole thing, while useful in practice, feels like essentially a workaround for unnecessarily heavy and app-centric UIs. Having both an “Open” command and an “Open, but faster and does less” command feels like humans succumbing to the needs of computers, not computers…

> Though the whole thing, while useful in practice, feels like essentially a workaround for unnecessarily heavy and app-centric UIs. Right, I'm sometimes puzzled by how people approach their personal "deal-breakers" that prevent Mac->Lin (or Win->Lin) switch. Many of the issues are presented as though they are bugs or clear-cut missing features, but are in fact subjective preference statements. In this case the "spac…

I always feel like I'm in a different plane from the rest of the universe when discussing these things.

When I read how Linux DEs are "obviously" garbage, I just generally throw up a thought bubble with few question marks above my head in confusion and go on with my day. I find Mac OS a frustrating experience personally, but assume it's mostly a result of not being used to it.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#239

Post by tayistay »

Nullabillity wrote: post #235
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what you’re getting at. How are movies a counterpoint? Movies and streaming services are paid products. And no one is forcing you to make software that spies on people as an indie dev? In fact if you are able to make a living through selling software you have less incentive to collect user data and sell it as a revenue stream. Most products that are free are those where the your data is being sold for…

> And no one is forcing you to make software that spies on people as an indie dev? This is the problem with your argument. You're looking at it from the developer's perspective, rather than the user's. As the developer you have this choice, and you know which choice you've made. As a user, all I have is your word (which is worth nothing if I don't already have a good reason to trust you). As a user, source code acces…

> This is the problem with your argument. You're looking at it from the developer's perspective, rather than the user's

The developers need to make the apps, otherwise there's no marketplace. Gotta satisfy both, albeit imperfectly.

> As a user, all I have is your word (which is worth nothing if I don't already have a good reason to trust you).

That's not true at all. Experts can audit closed-source software to see if it's phoning home, etc. An App Store (like Apple's) can have strict rules where developers will be banned if they do malicious things. You can install tools to monitor apps. Apps are sandboxed to prevent access. You have much more to go on than just the developer's word.

> As a user, source code access is important, for a number of reasons

Sure, it would be nice as a user to have the code. Most app developers simply won't give it to you.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#240

Post by abdulmuhaimin »

rewgs wrote: post #198
SkyMarshal wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm surprised they spend so much (presumably) time and effort on applications, especially 'Web' and 'Terminal'. How many users are actually going to use 'Web' as their browser? Elementary is aimed in part at non-power-users, moreso than most other distros besides Ubuntu. Most of them don't care or even know what browser they're using.

I find it a little hilarious that any distro is aimed at non-power users. The middle of the Venn diagram of “non-power user” and “will install an OS that isn’t the one that came with their computer” must be vanishingly small.

Based on how they redesign the installation process, its seem vendor-installed OS is the move here. So this might be the OS that came with the computer
Post reply on HN